Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Allied Mills screwing farmers over with dodgy claims?
- Thread starter Feldspar
- Start date
- Location
- North West
I know Olly well, we grew up together, he’s pretty straight to the point and won’t be messed about. He was northwest county chairman up until last year for the NFU and is combinable crops chair so things like this he’s very passionate about.
He had a similar problem last year, may have even been with the same mill! They tried to dock him and other’s for moistures. He runs a commercial grain store so had calibrated test equipment on site and has access to the openfield labs, there’s an independent lab just up the road from him so stuff is usually already been tested.
He had a similar problem last year, may have even been with the same mill! They tried to dock him and other’s for moistures. He runs a commercial grain store so had calibrated test equipment on site and has access to the openfield labs, there’s an independent lab just up the road from him so stuff is usually already been tested.
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Happens all time - saw it happen lots when we ran trucks - mills consistently over ordered and if everything was ok and turned up on time they would run out of bin space and just reject. not only costing the farmer but messing up haulage plans completely adding cost to a marginal job
A load we were delivering once got rejected before it arrived at the mill ! ...... that was rather embarrassing for them !
Will Blackburn
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
I think he still is NFU NW CC chair.
I thought so as well.
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
Reminds me of a friend who told me about three lorry loads he loaded late one afternoon.
First thing the next morning he got a call from the merchant telling him the first two loads were OK but there was a claim for moisture on the third one.
"Can't be he replied" ..... "Oh, yes." said the merchant ........ "Oh, no," he said, "The third trailer is still in our yard. It has a puncture and the tyre firm couldn't get last night, the driver is coming back for it when they've mended it."
Similar thing happened to my Dad.
He had two loads to go one day. The driver that collected the third load was a friend of his and as he was returning for the second load Dad decided to go with him for a look at the mill.
Nearly there, he had a call to say his first load had been rejected. He said that’s strange it’s not even there yet. When he explained he was literally in the lorry and around the corner there was lots of apologies.
Ive an idea Dad said to his mate to turn around and they took it back home.
- Location
- North West
Apologies, it’s county chair he finished last year, he’s still combinable crops chair.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
There is no standard for moisture meter calibration and it doesn't come under the remit of trading standards. This, and the fact nobody believes the farmers test results or is interested in farm retained samples makes the RT requirement for the annual test of moisture meters and for farm retention of samples to be a pointless requirement.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, RT is greatly over egging the on farm requirements when all that is actually relevant and pertinent is the quality of the load at the mill intake, which is entirely the opinion of the receiving customer. So can we have some honesty about this way of working rather than pretend that anything we do on farm re moisture testing and recording carries any weight whatsoever. I agree we should be working to good storage and conditioning standards, but please, lets drop the requirement for the formal annual testing of our meters and those mickey mouse certificates.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, RT is greatly over egging the on farm requirements when all that is actually relevant and pertinent is the quality of the load at the mill intake, which is entirely the opinion of the receiving customer. So can we have some honesty about this way of working rather than pretend that anything we do on farm re moisture testing and recording carries any weight whatsoever. I agree we should be working to good storage and conditioning standards, but please, lets drop the requirement for the formal annual testing of our meters and those mickey mouse certificates.
- Location
- North West
The problem isn’t just the moisture meter. It’s how representative the sample that is taken to test is. Protocols exist for the number of andnposition of samples that should be taken from a 29T load to form the bulk sample that the test sample is drawn from. I think, from memory, that 8 sampling points are required across a load. I have visited countless mills, export destinations and other intakes. I have yet to see a pneumatic sampling spear take 8 samples from one load.
Most moisture meters are not much better than giving a result within 0.5% range so being rejected/penalised with a 0.1 or 0.2 claim is always a bit questionable.
The nuclear option is an arbitrator drawing sealed samples sent for oven testing ....... but like many legal issue the cost of defending the principle is often prohibitive.
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
Farmers need to change their terms of trade for the better during the next grain shortage I.e when their bargaining power is strong
why is it we sign our lives away to these merchant/ consumer terms of trade that only ever go one way
why is it we sign our lives away to these merchant/ consumer terms of trade that only ever go one way
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Mills taking in over 100,000t need a farmers rep there taking samples to inspire confidence. At £25k a year it's 25p per ton. We pay 45p a ton levy for close to sweet fa. Processor pays 9per ton.
- Location
- Wiltshire
Must be 20 years ago now, I had a load rejected while I was still loading it. Call came through and said it couldn’t be mine as truck still on the farm
Bg
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
Struggling to get my head round what is going on here.
Who is getting shafted here? The farmer, the merchant, the haulier, the mill?
Or all of the above?
Merchants don't create rejections for no reason, because the admin is an expensive ball-ache and merchants margins are small these days.
Mycotoxin results are measured in "parts per billion" so a small variation in the sample can make the difference between a pass and a fail.
The grower has the power to choose which merchant he deals with, and may even be able to influence the choice of destination.
The haulier has the least power, as bulk haulage margins are microscopic. Hauliers can't afford to turn work down and lose business to someone else.
Whatever circulation this video has had on social media will have caused damage to the merchant, as everyone on here questions their own use of that particular merchant.
Meanwhile, the mill probably won't give a stuff (unless the mainstream press get interested).
Who is getting shafted here? The farmer, the merchant, the haulier, the mill?
Or all of the above?
Merchants don't create rejections for no reason, because the admin is an expensive ball-ache and merchants margins are small these days.
Mycotoxin results are measured in "parts per billion" so a small variation in the sample can make the difference between a pass and a fail.
The grower has the power to choose which merchant he deals with, and may even be able to influence the choice of destination.
The haulier has the least power, as bulk haulage margins are microscopic. Hauliers can't afford to turn work down and lose business to someone else.
Whatever circulation this video has had on social media will have caused damage to the merchant, as everyone on here questions their own use of that particular merchant.
Meanwhile, the mill probably won't give a stuff (unless the mainstream press get interested).
- Location
- Lincolnshire
On the other hand... I have sent lots of wheat thats been under full spec and tipped at full spec... suspected no testing was done.
For example not one of the 4 merchants who tested all my wheat found any with 13% protein last year, but at one mill it was all tipped without claim and another tipped 50% without claim, (that one depended on time of day tipping)
For example not one of the 4 merchants who tested all my wheat found any with 13% protein last year, but at one mill it was all tipped without claim and another tipped 50% without claim, (that one depended on time of day tipping)
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
When we ran a bulker years ago I was at a big mill near Old Trafford, Manchester.
Whilst I and a couple of other drivers were waiting patiently for samples to be taken and instruction on where to tip, we were all getting a bit narked because lorry after lorry was allowed straight it, no sampling, tipping ahead of us while we just had to wait.
Myself and another driver went to the weighbridge office to ask what was going on. We were told there was a big boat load in the docks that needed unloading. We were then told there was no sampling being done because “if it failed, where’s it going to go? We can hardly send it back across the sea!”
In Liverpool it seemed to me that your union card could get you tipped and even meant no sampling. I was in a queue one day behind about half a dozen lorries. A bloke was going from cab to cab talking to the drivers. I could see something changing hands in the early morning gloom.
When he got to me he asked if I had my union card. Being young and a bit naive I proudly announced “no I don’t have a bloody union card. Never been a union man and never will be.”
That was a good way to waste nearly four hours of my life looking out across Seaforth docks. One of the drivers was good enough to stop on his way out and let me know “the rules”. He said a few quid never does any harm either and that rejections are few if you know who’s palm to grease. Twunts.
Whilst I and a couple of other drivers were waiting patiently for samples to be taken and instruction on where to tip, we were all getting a bit narked because lorry after lorry was allowed straight it, no sampling, tipping ahead of us while we just had to wait.
Myself and another driver went to the weighbridge office to ask what was going on. We were told there was a big boat load in the docks that needed unloading. We were then told there was no sampling being done because “if it failed, where’s it going to go? We can hardly send it back across the sea!”
In Liverpool it seemed to me that your union card could get you tipped and even meant no sampling. I was in a queue one day behind about half a dozen lorries. A bloke was going from cab to cab talking to the drivers. I could see something changing hands in the early morning gloom.
When he got to me he asked if I had my union card. Being young and a bit naive I proudly announced “no I don’t have a bloody union card. Never been a union man and never will be.”
That was a good way to waste nearly four hours of my life looking out across Seaforth docks. One of the drivers was good enough to stop on his way out and let me know “the rules”. He said a few quid never does any harm either and that rejections are few if you know who’s palm to grease. Twunts.
Never understood what the point of keeping samples is? If someone sends a load off at 18%, full of ergot, rat s**t, weevil and pink grains and it gets rejected, when the farmer shows them his little bag of beautiful golden dry plump grain with no impurities whatsoever, are the mill going to turn around and say "oh yeah sorry mate I see what you mean, it was lovely stuff after all"?
Obviously some aspect I'm missing?
Daniel
Member
- Location
- Mildenhall, Suffolk
From these tests you might think that one field was a bit low, which accounted for about 25% of the tonnage booked (ignore the obvious field of feed wheat).
But so far 60% of loads have been subject to a claim. Remarkably since I complained 2 days ago the two lorry loads since have gone in without a hitch.
You'll obviously need to draw your own conclusions, maybe wheat can lose a chunk of protein in the heap, or maybe our technique of grabbing odd handfuls out of the sampling hatch on the combine on each field and then getting them tested is faulty?
But so far 60% of loads have been subject to a claim. Remarkably since I complained 2 days ago the two lorry loads since have gone in without a hitch.
You'll obviously need to draw your own conclusions, maybe wheat can lose a chunk of protein in the heap, or maybe our technique of grabbing odd handfuls out of the sampling hatch on the combine on each field and then getting them tested is faulty?