And Then Ireland Stood Up To The EU Bully’s

[Ashtree]

It’s a pathetically accepted convention amongst the Brexiteers, that Britain was regularly bullied and ignored by the EU, in the context of it’s national interest.

Indeed, it was regularly pointed out to me on this forum, that Ireland would also suffer a devastating bully blow from Europe in the Apple tax case!

Of course the EU Commission did rule against Ireland and Apple in this case. Nevertheless, as is our right, Ireland defended its position and appealed it.

And we won. So fudge the begrudgers to hell and back. Fudge the big countries like France in particular, who have moved might and muscle to accuse Ireland of wrongdoing. BIG win for justice and the capacity of small countries, to hold their own in the shark pool!


Apple and Ireland win €13bn tax appeal
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0715/1153349-apple-ireland-eu/

 

[M-J-G]

Britain were just too soft to deal with the EU, any other nations with money and a spine would have stood up and been dominant.

Supposedly we'll do better with China and America, since they are renown for their tendency to put other nations interests ahead of their own.

And they all lived...

 

[7610 super q]

 

[ollie989898]

Was Ireland supposed to pay the EU 13 billion or was Apple supposed to pay Ireland 13 billion?

 

[yin ewe]

Was Ireland supposed to pay the EU 13 billion or was Apple supposed to pay Ireland 13 billion?

I think Apple was supposed to pay Ireland 13bn, if that's the case Ireland have done really well in appealing the case.
Apologies if I've got it wrong @Ashtree will be able to fill in the details.

 

[robs1]

Apple would have to have paid Ireland the money but I think some of it would have ended up in Brussels in higher contributions

 

[Bongodog]

Ireland granted Apple a 1% corporation tax rate, resulting in Apple allocating virtually all their EU profits to their Ireland subsidiary. similar deals often take place in Luxemburg and other small EU nations. One wheeze is to allocate significant costs to your intellectual property rights (brand name) You register the brand name in the country with the low tax rate and then charge back the operating company for use of the brand, e.g. if a starbucks coffee is £3 the UK branch pays the sister company in the low tax Country 30p for use of the brand reducing the UK tax bill to virtually zero.
It is good for the national coffers in Ireland etc, 1% of verything across the whole of the EU rather than 20% or so of the company profits in just your small nation.
It works for the small nations, but not for the likes of Germany, France, Italy etc who are somewhat agrieved by the loss of income. The original judgement was that Apple owed Ireland $13bn which at face value looked a good deal for Ireland, the consequences however would have been that the major tech companies that had set up Ireland HQ's to channel their profits through would have all then had to pay far more tax the result of which would have been pulling out of ireland as they might as well then pay the tax elsewhere in the EU where it would be more convenient to locate.
It will be interesting to see what happens here in the UK, as we separate from the EU it would seem inevitable that our Govt will look very carefully at the likes of Apple allocating 5% of their profit in the Country the goods are sold and the remaining 95% to their Eurpoean HQ

Germany etc will be pushing very hard for an appeal over this

 

[Farmer1001]

Ireland granted Apple a 1% corporation tax rate, resulting in Apple allocating virtually all their EU profits to their Ireland subsidiary. similar deals often take place in Luxemburg and other small EU nations. One wheeze is to allocate significant costs to your intellectual property rights (brand name) You register the brand name in the country with the low tax rate and then charge back the operating company for use of the brand, e.g. if a starbucks coffee is £3 the UK branch pays the sister company in the low tax Country 30p for use of the brand reducing the UK tax bill to virtually zero.
It is good for the national coffers in Ireland etc, 1% of verything across the whole of the EU rather than 20% or so of the company profits in just your small nation.
It works for the small nations, but not for the likes of Germany, France, Italy etc who are somewhat agrieved by the loss of income. The original judgement was that Apple owed Ireland $13bn which at face value looked a good deal for Ireland, the consequences however would have been that the major tech companies that had set up Ireland HQ's to channel their profits through would have all then had to pay far more tax the result of which would have been pulling out of ireland as they might as well then pay the tax elsewhere in the EU where it would be more convenient to locate.
It will be interesting to see what happens here in the UK, as we separate from the EU it would seem inevitable that our Govt will look very carefully at the likes of Apple allocating 5% of their profit in the Country the goods are sold and the remaining 95% to their Eurpoean HQ

Germany etc will be pushing very hard for an appeal over this

Exactly this. On the face of it Ireland have given away 13 billion, in reality the long term deal for Ireland is far greater then the the loss of the proportion of the 13 billion they would have ended up with.

 

[Highland Mule]

An international race to the bottom and only the corporations will benefit, long term. Chasing market share at the expense of margin, Ireland have bought the trade, but ultimately will be undercut by someone else and before long there will be no such thing as corporate taxation. We are all losers here, unless we have more invested in international corporation than we do in our own country.

 

[Farmer1001]

An international race to the bottom and only the corporations will benefit, long term. Chasing market share at the expense of margin, Ireland have bought the trade, but ultimately will be undercut by someone else and before long there will be no such thing as corporate taxation. We are all losers here, unless we have more invested in international corporation than we do in our own country.

I’m surprised we still have it.

 

[ollie989898]

An international race to the bottom and only the corporations will benefit, long term. Chasing market share at the expense of margin, Ireland have bought the trade, but ultimately will be undercut by someone else and before long there will be no such thing as corporate taxation. We are all losers here, unless we have more invested in international corporation than we do in our own country.

With the rise of 'own your own business' how will the exchequer ever raise enough tax if corporation tax is done away with?

 

[Highland Mule]

With the rise of 'own your own business' how will the exchequer ever raise enough tax if corporation tax is done away with?

Off topic, but seems that a load of small company owners will have to find a new employment vehicle from next year anyway, with the declared changes to personal services companies and IR35.

 

[caveman]

Who's going to be Irelands buddies, when the EU realise they can't afford them and chuck them out?

 

[Ashtree]

Who's going to be Irelands buddies, when the EU realise they can't afford them and chuck them out?

Pssssst! Ireland is a net contributor!

 

[caveman]

Pssssst! Ireland is a net contributor!

EU won't take shirt buttons though.
Or rather. They probably will. Untill you run out of them.

 

[Ashtree]

EU won't take shirt buttons though.
Or rather. They probably will. Untill you run out of them.

But we will take sterling when it’s worth shirt buttons! Just make sure the wheelbarrow is big enough, and the grunt behind it is well fed!

 

[Farmer1001]

Who's going to be Irelands buddies, when the EU realise they can't afford them and chuck them out?

Ireland has never been so important or crucial to the EU. They have most likely become the most powerful of the smaller members.

 

[arcobob]

They will inevitably become significant if not substantial net contributors in the coming years and then the relationship will become uneasy.

 

[Ashtree]

They will inevitably become significant if not substantial net contributors in the coming years and then the relationship will become uneasy.

Remember the discussion about the Chinese on another topic recently. They the luminaries opined, have a huge advantage over the west in terms of their strategic outlook. It was concluded and I agree, that they think long term. Ten, fifty, one hundred year outlook. No short term, navel gazing.

That sir, is how we in Ireland look at the EU and Europe in general. As an exporting nation, the health and well being of the European economy and society, are key to our own domestic future.
The cost to us, of current net contributions is far and away outweighed by future income streams, from our exports to hopefully a healthy growing market, right in our back yard.

This weekend, Ireland agreed to the new European Covid rescue fund €750B, and to our further increased net contributions to cover the cost of it. Those increased contributions, have barely raised a whisper never mind a headline here.

We don’t really have a rabble rousting, single trick pony like Farage or UKIP, to kick up bile and falsehoods. Those kinds of politicians and false prophets, get short shrift from our electorate. Long may that continue.

 

[arcobob]

We shall see.