Animal performance on holistic systems

[RJ1]

I've read a great deal of the info on here and elsewhere about the significant gains in soil health etc with this approach.

I was just hoping to gain some real world information on DLWG of animals or performance of dairy herds on this type of grazing compared with the in at 3000kg DM and out at 1500kg approach prevalent with grazing herds.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Depends on how much work you want to make them do - it's a trade between individual animal performance and per hectare performance governed by stocking rate.
At low SR we can get 2.8kg day per animal and at high SR we can get 1kg/day but with 5 cattle/ha

 

[RJ1]

Depends on how much work you want to make them do - it's a trade between individual animal performance and per hectare performance governed by stocking rate.
At low SR we can get 2.8kg day per animal and at high SR we can get 1kg/day but with 5 cattle/ha

So, and forgive my terminology, the more you are prepared for them to "waste", the better the performance?

It's interesting as on normal grazing systems, quality - i.e. 3200kg Max - dictates performance. Any more, particularly if grass goes to head, and performance suffers. Is that only so because of the stocking rate?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So, and forgive my terminology, the more you are prepared for them to "waste", the better the performance?

It's interesting as on normal grazing systems, quality - i.e. 3200kg Max - dictates performance. Any more, particularly if grass goes to head, and performance suffers. Is that only so because of the stocking rate?

It's because of overutilisation... and a low stocking rate. The grass is all stressed and this results in reproduction, because the plants realise the farmer is trying to harm it (the farmer doesn't realise).
So many are that sh!t-scared of losing quality to the extent they lose quantity. They'll mow and remove the leaves off their plants and hide it on a concrete pad where it cannot do anything to help.

The best part of a plant for energy is the top half... but if you let it over-mature and then take too much, performance suffers.
Continually "bonsai-ing" plants just means smaller plants and an imminent energy deficit; the usual reaction is to import energy (feed, fert) rather than absorb more energy or reduce energy demand (let leaf area increase, destock).

We're leaving well over 3200 behind our mob, stuff knows what's in front of them!
And our EFS reflects that, as it's close to 7 times the B&LNZ benchmarking figures for profitability.

Just now @Farmer Roy posted a Charlie Arnott/Kit Pharo video on our thread in the holistic forum which neatly demonstrates the high stocking rate advantage by switching it to an arable context; if grain farmers operated like beef farmers they would plant very few plants per hectare and hope that those plants provided lots of grain per plant.

But they don't because they see the flaw that each individual plant will only grow so far and produce so much, above that the costs increase but the yield does not. This seems to be a common mistake in livestock operations, eg a fattener will only grow at 2kg for so many days, a lamb will only gain 450g for so many days, a cow will only make 2.4kgMS for so many days.
2 fatteners will gain 1kg for more days, 3 lambs will gain 150g/day for more days, 2 cows will produce 1.2kgMS their whole lactation.
Efficient and effective production from grass thus requires a "flexible" stocking rate to match the farm's carrying capacity.
We run a lot of animals in the spring and then destock to allow a large reserve to be maintained, the drier the summer looks the more we sell.

 

[onesiedale]

It's because of overutilisation... and a low stocking rate.

Some just simply call it "under-stocked and over-grazed"

. . . But you gave a comprehensive explaination @Kiwi Pete ?

 

[RJ1]

The best part of a plant for energy is the top half... but if you let it over-mature and then take too much, performance suffers.

I think this is the particular answer i was looking for. So effectively, the stock is still eating the leafy part (as is the case with a conventional rotation) but you are not forcing them to eat the stemmy parts, that being left and trampled in.

Is it therefore a bit more of an art to judge, as opposed to the safety net of platemetering?

It's such a different concepts as anything not eat to 1500 is said to be unpalatable next time round, whereas this doesn't seem to matter to you!

Do you know any good info/resources of a good Dairy farm operating this system?

Thanks again, very intrigued.

 

[organicguy]

Rob richmond at Chedworth nr Cirencester.

 

[exmoor dave]

Depends on how much work you want to make them do - it's a trade between individual animal performance and per hectare performance governed by stocking rate.
At low SR we can get 2.8kg day per animal and at high SR we can get 1kg/day but with 5 cattle/ha

So if you move those 5 cattle quick enough so they only get to browse the tops of the grass and select out the clover etc etc,
Whilst trampling the rest, in theory do you think you could get the 5 cattle to perform like the 2 cattle in terms of DLWG?
Or is that a win too far?

 

[Blaithin]

This seems to be a common mistake in livestock operations, eg a fattener will only grow at 2kg for so many days, a lamb will only gain 450g for so many days, a cow will only make 2.4kgMS for so many days.
2 fatteners will gain 1kg for more days, 3 lambs will gain 150g/day for more days, 2 cows will produce 1.2kgMS their whole lactation.

A cow raising 2-3 calves will wean off smaller calves, but more total weight.

People are excited by single, large numbers. Rarely do they want their yield to require addition.

Which partly explains why arable guys are focused on the single number of bushels of main crop per acre and never venture further to think about what other products they can get from that same acreage.

 

[hendrebc]

I think this is the particular answer i was looking for. So effectively, the stock is still eating the leafy part (as is the case with a conventional rotation) but you are not forcing them to eat the stemmy parts, that being left and trampled in.

Is it therefore a bit more of an art to judge, as opposed to the safety net of platemetering?

It's such a different concepts as anything not eat to 1500 is said to be unpalatable next time round, whereas this doesn't seem to matter to you!

Do you know any good info/resources of a good Dairy farm operating this system?

Thanks again, very intrigued.

@Agrispeed is dairy on this sort of system

 

[Poorbuthappy]

And @shortney
(Sorry, that's twice I've tagged you into a discussion in a week? )

 

[Agrispeed]

@Agrispeed is dairy on this sort of system

Yes and hopefully moving much more towards a mobstocking type system this year.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So if you move those 5 cattle quick enough so they only get to browse the tops of the grass and select out the clover etc etc,
Whilst trampling the rest, in theory do you think you could get the 5 cattle to perform like the 2 cattle in terms of DLWG?
Or is that a win too far?

I do think there is a lot of room for improvement that we could find quite easily, but it depends on your goals, and it's "a long game"

The name of the game is "energy capture and harvest" and this is why I leave a lot of plant behind the mob, and make them trample it down so the energy in the plant is accessible to the soil as well.
However if I imported some energy (N fertiliser, or some grain or molasses etc) then production could rise quite easily, but not profitability. I think there is much more profit to be found