Anyone going to Harper Adams University?

[alwaysraining]

Within the trail they had found that between the wheelings the yield from no till plot was considerably more than the tilled plots.

The most interesting part of the day for me was the research in driverless tech

 

[rob1]

Depends if you put yourself first, or the big picture.

I think we all know what human nature dictates.

But isnt one of the best things about farming is that we dont have to screw each other over and are happy to exchange info freely, not many industries will do that, will be a sad day when we cant share our ideas good and bad

 

[dontknowanything]

But isnt one of the best things about farming is that we dont have to screw each other over and are happy to exchange info freely, not many industries will do that, will be a sad day when we cant share our ideas good and bad

Yes, that's why I didn't agree with the post that I replied to originally

 

[Simon C]

The trial was petty much rubbish for all the reasons stated above, it was geared to prove how good CTF is and Tim Chamen seemed to have all the academics eating out of his hand. It was as if they had just heard about this great new idea, keeping all wheelings on only 15% of the field but unfortunately it just showed how out of date they all are. We are probably about 8 years ahead of the lot of them.

Nothing wrong with the report except it relied on already published data which is also out of date, every one there did seem to be in favor of no-till and agreed that Harper should put a lot more work into it. (We have done most of it already, but never mind). Any skeptics there would have had a pretty hard time because the five farmers came over as so enthusiastic and pleased with having made change to no-till. Tony Reynolds was the star, as usual.

Thing that annoyed me was that there wasn't a single mention about soil biology in the report or from Prof Goodwin in his presentation. Does he really not know that all sorts of little bugs live below the surface and that if you don't disturb their habitat, they can actually work for you. He probably thinks nematodes are small worms that eat roots and should all be exterminated with powerful chemicals at every opportunity and that bacteria and fungi are diseases. Tony R said that he hadn't used any P, K or lime for six years, but nobody picked him up on this or asked how that could be possible.

Another thing the report didn't mention is the social aspect of no-till. It is now possible for small arable farmers like myself to be profitable and earn a good living and has halted the idea that everyone has to get bigger to survive. We now have a much more interesting way of farming and hopefully, it means that a lot more small family farms do not need to give up and be taken over by their local contract farming vultures.

 

[Simon Chiles]

their local contract farming vultures.

Does that include me!!

 

[Jim Bullock]

Another thing the report didn't mention is the social aspect of no-till. It is now possible for small arable farmers like myself to be profitable and earn a good living and has halted the idea that everyone has to get bigger to survive. We now have a much more interesting way of farming and hopefully, it means that a lot more small family farms do not need to give up and be taken over by their local contract farming vultures.
This is one of the messages we brought back from Frederic Thomas's farm visit last week. Not only was Frederic able to go off and run several businesses away from the farm but others were able to come in and earn a living off the same area of land as well...Ok his contractor was one but they were also producing compost for use on the farm and re-sale, sheep meat and after our visit I understand possibly Angus beef as well.. Its all about increasing the sale value from an area of land and/or reducing the input costs which helps reduce financial risk.

 

[alwaysraining]

Academics are always slow to catch up with industry, the fact they are reviewing info and research is a good first step.

Starting a dialog with farmers is also a good step, because if we do not share our experiences then research can not be focused upon what is needed by us.

Studies carried out by academic institutions are very important in improving farm practice and knowledge of farmers and advisors.

The next logical step should be studies into soil biology and successful no till rotations and systems

It is vital as farmers to have dialogue with academia, if we do not all studies and funds will be channeled into research benefiting input companies

 

[dontknowanything]

Does that include me!!

If NT/CA/DD/TLA is more profitable, then those farmers will be the contractor vultures of tomorrow.

Farm consolidation: you can run but you cant hide

 

[York]

Academics are always slow to catch up with industry, the fact they are reviewing info and research is a good first step.

Starting a dialog with farmers is also a good step, because if we do not share our experiences then research can not be focused upon what is needed by us.

Studies carried out by academic institutions are very important in improving farm practice and knowledge of farmers and advisors.

The next logical step should be studies into soil biology and successful no till rotations and systems

It is vital as farmers to have dialogue with academia, if we do not all studies and funds will be channeled into research benefiting input companies

Sorry, I disagree. If this is the case I wonder why basic knowledge, like published by Prof.. W. Bergmann in 93 as a summary of the influence of nutrition and Malnutrition has on plant health, this facts have by far no means reached the farm gate or the farmers head. Because when you drive through the regions there are a high amount of fields in the growing season which show visible nutrition deficits.
Bergmann did last year at the age of 93. Some of TFF writers & readers have had the chance to meet him. His biggest concern was, or "lament" (I lack the proper English term) was that he said: Why did I put the work in this book. My work was in vain when I look at what reached the farmers head & farm gate of the knowledge published in 93.
sorry, innovation, this is my believe, will not come from academics. As SimonC said, you are not 8 years ahead, you are ahead a whole generation. Because this now in power and educating the next generation of academics have to be off the field.
for a change in the system we need 10% of the target group. How many farmers you need in GB for a change? We need a little over 20ooo farmers which have adapted the new thinking. So this target doesn't look for me out of reach.
York-Th.

 

[Simon C]

Does that include me!!

No, because you are providing a service and the knowledge for small farmers to keep control of their own land. A perfect example is your neighbour on very small arable farm (I won't mention his name on here) where you just go in and establish his crops for him. Must be cheaper than him doing it himself with cultivations and certainly more profitable than the local vulture taking a big cut out of it.

 

[Baling Hay]

No, because you are providing a service and the knowledge for small farmers to keep control of their own land. A perfect example is your neighbour on very small arable farm (I won't mention his name on here) where you just go in and establish his crops for him. Must be cheaper than him doing it himself with cultivations and certainly more profitable than the local vulture taking a big cut out of it.

Yeah I wish I had a SImon CHiles equivalent near our place in Scotland!

 

[SilliamWhale]

Yeah I wish I had a SImon CHiles equivalent near our place in Scotland!

Not sure how he'd look in a kilt....

 

[clbarclay]

Does that include me!!

Vulture sounds like a good simale for @Simon C comment. Stripping the last of the neutiants before moving on to the next remains, that doesn't sound like your approach.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Not sure how he'd look in a kilt....

I think you'd find that if I was wearing a kilt and you your mankini that even I would be capable of the four minute mile.

 

[Jim Bullock]

I think that the NTA and BASE-UK was/ is all about meeting up with like minded people and discussing what we are doing.. I always learn more talking to other growers than listening to the experts.

 

[alwaysraining]

Sorry, I disagree. If this is the case I wonder why basic knowledge, like published by Prof.. W. Bergmann in 93 as a summary of the influence of nutrition and Malnutrition has on plant health, this facts have by far no means reached the farm gate or the farmers head. Because when you drive through the regions there are a high amount of fields in the growing season which show visible nutrition deficits.
Bergmann did last year at the age of 93. Some of TFF writers & readers have had the chance to meet him. His biggest concern was, or "lament" (I lack the proper English term) was that he said: Why did I put the work in this book. My work was in vain when I look at what reached the farmers head & farm gate of the knowledge published in 93.
sorry, innovation, this is my believe, will not come from academics. As SimonC said, you are not 8 years ahead, you are ahead a whole generation. Because this now in power and educating the next generation of academics have to be off the field.
for a change in the system we need 10% of the target group. How many farmers you need in GB for a change? We need a little over 20ooo farmers which have adapted the new thinking. So this target doesn't look for me out of reach.
York-Th.

We do need to have dialog as

- these institutions are where the next gen of growers are being educated
- policy makers listen, to these so called experts.
- if we can be seen to be operating more sustainable systems, then we can hold of blunt bureaucratic policies
- I agree innovation certainly comes from farmers, however if we are going to start understanding science behind success and failures we need to work with research organisations.
- getting together with other farmers is a fantastic way of learning organisations such as base
- transferring knowledge using social media is fantastic, perhaps people carrying out research should regularly post here so their studies could be better focused

 

[York]

We do need to have dialog as

- these institutions are where the next gen of growers are being educated
- policy makers listen, to these so called experts.
- if we can be seen to be operating more sustainable systems, then we can hold of blunt bureaucratic policies
- I agree innovation certainly comes from farmers, however if we are going to start understanding science behind success and failures we need to work with research organisations.
- getting together with other farmers is a fantastic way of learning organisations such as base
- transferring knowledge using social media is fantastic, perhaps people carrying out research should regularly post here so their studies could be better focused

sorry for my part I will concentrate on working with farmers and like minded.
Researchers: fine when they come.Have spend way too much time to work with them.
NTA: if this is a simular organisation than our GKB I only can say: as more the industrie has influence by sponsoring, special membership, as less innovation you get. Have seen the development over the last 3 years over here. We had some good meetings but now, as industrie is more an dmore getting hold, the meetings are more and more following their idears. Also a good number of people, farmers, which are thinking and working outside the box, are not willing to host any meetings as each meeting one of the sponsoring members of the industry will be the co host. Why? because they sponsor the catering. Ok, and because of this they "have the right" to have at least one speaker. So you have a No Till day on a farm which does No Till and you get a speaker which promotes the "High speed discing" as the invention.
York-Th.

 

[farmideas]

Who

I think that the NTA and BASE-UK was/ is all about meeting up with like minded people and discussing what we are doing.. I always learn more talking to other growers than listening to the experts.

It would be good to include your experience in the Soil+ supplement which I am doing in Prac Farm Ideas. We're not more than 30 miles apart... if you can get in touch [email protected] could be useful.

 

[York]

Research:
the only place which I want to exclude with my "rant" on researchers is the Swiss Comparison trial at Oberacker. They are rely wanting to find ways and are open for "critics" and looking into suggestions what to do or how to approach it instead.
I was asked to be part of it but had to decline at that moment due to health reasons.
York-Th.

 

[SorenIlsoe]

Research:
the only place which I want to exclude with my "rant" on researchers is the Swiss Comparison trial at Oberacker. They are rely wanting to find ways and are open for "critics" and looking into suggestions what to do or how to approach it instead.
I was asked to be part of it but had to decline at that moment due to health reasons.
York-Th.

Agree! The Swiss trial is a very rare plot with 20 years notill compared to plow. No min- till funny things.....
All other places is there a 5 year budget where they start on a plowed field. And after the 5 years is the trial plowed up again - even before the no-till is performing the best.
But also here whe meet the scientists critics, becaus there is no replication of the plots in Oberacker! And then it is no use in the scientists world!
Here in this country we had a geologi students bachelor project comparing a farm with 38 years shallow min- till compared to the neighbour farm that had always been plowed. It showed that there was more carbon under the plowing layer in the mintill farm, and that there was stored 42 tons co2/ha compared to plowed. Normally acientist say that notill only creates more carbon in the surface but in average there is not stored mored carbon, and certainly not in the deep soil under the plowing depth.
But the scientist reaction to this was "no use, because there is no replies and statistical it does live up to the standards.."