Are some of us being foolish

[Shutesy]

Not to say that moving to the most technically advanced bit of kit currently available is always the best idea but there is the other end of the scale where things haven't been changed for years. As an example here we still use a manual shut-off varispreader on 600 acres of arable and grass spreading at 12m!!! We haven't even got to a decent tramline size or a standard twin disc spreader yet so we get problems with using worn out old kit, such as lack of output and inaccurate application rates!! So to answer the question I think perhaps some are being foolish at both ends of the scale especially with the high costs of fertiliser nowadays!

 

[warksfarmer]

Just wondering if it's me or do others feel we are being lead by machinery dealers/agricultural manufacturing industry into a situation of diminishing returns for our money.
My recent case and still ongoing of the great benefits of the rush for more technology is my new fertilizer spreader. I have just bought a Kvernland Geodisc machine full weighing,auto shut off ,sectional shutting,the mutts nuts. For my Gps I was on patchwork blackbox as it controlled my previous machine. Experience has told me that getting this stuff to work is never what the salesman said so I gave myself 6 weeks for dealer manufacturer and patchwork to get it all singing. To start with a whole multitude of fresh cabling had to be installed none of which was mentioned or even known at the time by the parties concerned and many visits to get it all talking. O as an aside patchwork upgraded my web track 2 cloud storage to web track 3 lost all my stored info but added various other farms from up and down the country to my records. To get applied fertilizer info for last year having spent a fortune on all this techno feast I had to use the operators written diary notes ,I would add as well that this was meant to be fixed some time ago but this morning when we synced he first days spreading not only was all this crap still in my records but it wiped the application jobs and fields from the memory stick in the process which was not discovered till the machine was back in the field 12 miles from home. Tonight still not fully working.
I am totally guilty at buying in to these improvements and wanting to be progressive but is it smoke and mirrors are we really seeing better crops ,higher yields, less £s spent on crops and cultivation and is all this technology worth the heartache because you can bet your life that in my experiences it's the non working technology that stops the job getting done.
Bit cheesed by it all tonight.

Yep its called being 'sold to' and we are all guilty of it but not just with metal. Crop inputs are probably worse because you get frightened into not applying something because your led to believe the so called trials price it's required.

At least with metal you know you can apply the fert with the old machine and the crop won't be at risk.

But yes I agree with what your saying.

 

[Farmer T]

Haha I couldn't agree more with this post!

Have spent today mumbling to myself whilst trying to get a Trimble to talk to a Kuhn spinner. The theory is excellent but IMO the technology isn't there at the moment.

Salesmen are so keen to sell you and tell you what it can do but what a pain it is.

The Trimble drops below full signal the spinner switches off, 1 of the many connections comes loose both boxes stop, wires all over the cab, the satellite signal moves from before so you can't spread the outside of the field. The biggest problem I've found is the salesmen selling you the kit often are clueless how it all works as they've never used it. From what I've heard specialist such as AS communications down the road from us are very good and in hindsight should have just dealt with them.

Pity as I am really keen to use this technology but have been disappointed.

 

[Andyrob]

Love the bash sales man part if this.

Well why didn't you go with the Tellus box and gps all on one screen?

 

[DrWazzock]

I think the lads in white coats back in the labs just don't realise how much we have to get done in a day, and that we haven't time to faff around with the nuances, peculiarities and vulnerabilities of their over complex systems.

The lack of a common standard for just about anything doesn't help either.

I was employed in engineering control systems design for 15 years. Most of it is snake oil. I avoid electronics or worse still software on essential machinery if at all possible. It will bite you in the end. Toys like this are OK though.

 

[DieselRob]

For our small corner of the world (320ac) 2 years ago we upgraded the drill from a box to pneumatic combi, original plan was to be bog basic but we went 1 step up to electronic metering and now we can press a button to increase/decrease seed rate, absolutely brilliant well worth it imo. We currently have a 2200l (3bag) twin disc spreader and 1200l sprayer, both of which you drive at a fixed speed all the time, not ideal on hills and rough headlands, when due to swap the size probably wont increase but I will go up a spec level or 2 so that i'm not having to drive at a fixed speed, again very useful and will be easily justifiable if not on the price but on the operator comfort. Will I be buying auto shut off/ auto boom height/ gps mapping... probably not. Would I buy a centerline 220/ patchwork go type thing for basic guidance on pre em etc... I think so.

A lot of farmers can be dazzled by salesman bullsh1t and buy the best cos its better than the neighbours, it doesn't matter if it works cos it just sounds good. Running a farm from a spreadsheet is good for the bank manager but not always good for the man on the ground, not everything has to be bought/ not bought purely on how much it costs, I would happily buy something if I was sure it would make my job easier... within reason anyway

 

[Renaultman]

I keep looking at these fancy spreaders. Just have a feeling that a few good washes down would have electric gubbins shorting out and that lot. Will stick with the old Kuhn 1131 which has lasted 10 years with only a couple of slight bubbly patches in the paint. Probably worth what we paid for it anyway!

But basic tractor autosteer is a wonderful thing. Bracket on steering wheel. Whole lot can be swapped to another machine in about 15 minutes. Just plugs into the cig lighter.

I have just taken my MDS 1142 in to get the agitators repaired, it is hydraulic shut off and is very accurate and easy to use. On the acreage I have to do, I pretty much know what might need a 'bit more' and what would be just throwing good money after bad. With all the other variables that are outside of our control, mainly mother nature, I am highly unconvinced by VR particularly on a disc spreader.

 

[beltbreaker]

On my 16th season with my Kuhn 1131, covers approximately 2000 acres a year. It's I had new viens every 2 years and one st of discs plus 4 or 5 sets of gearbox bearings. I have looked at it for the passed 6 years and wondered if I should replace it. Still got it and will keep it until the tin worm gets it. I love toys, but to keep my family farm profitable, simple well made basic kit is the way forward. A guidance box for grassland is a must mind as it doubles output.

Cheers BB

 

[Renaultman]

On my 16th season with my Kuhn 1131, covers approximately 2000 acres a year. It's I had new viens every 2 years and one st of discs plus 4 or 5 sets of gearbox bearings. I have looked at it for the passed 6 years and wondered if I should replace it. Still got it and will keep it until the tin worm gets it. I love toys, but to keep my family farm profitable, simple well made basic kit is the way forward. A guidance box for grassland is a must mind as it doubles output.

Cheers BB

I feel the same about the MDS, I also love my toys but really only have a Trimble 250 with a coverage logging switch wired up to the hydraiulics for the spreader and an electric one for sprayer. Everything else is dead simple and easy, but not always cheap, to fix.

 

[DrWazzock]

Must confess I went for a simple guidance system for grassland fertiliser and spraying. Mojomini. OK once I'd ditched the suction mounting. Touch screens in machinery of our vintage with jolts and vibration are tricky to use at times when on the move. Would need to go RTK for real accuracy but can't justify the cost and set up time on our small acreage. Had a ride in a Cat with RTK. Most impressed , but glad I wasn't paying for it.

 

[Farmer T]

Love the bash sales man part if this.

Well why didn't you go with the Tellus box and gps all on one screen?

I wanted something that could do auto steering in the future, do VRA for P and K now and something we could switch from cab to cab to use the GPS feature. So we got the Trimble.

My "bash sales man" part it aimed at the big agricultural companies that sell the GPS but don't know anything about it.

Topcon salesman said it wasn't really what he did and never even quoted and my Trimble was given to me in a box and that was it. In the end it turned out I was short of Trimble cable that allowed the Kuhn to talk the Trimble. This took 6 months to sort out and leaves me currently with 30t of base fertiliser that should be spread by now.

 

[S J H]

'That's progress'

 

[Mark C]

My old Vicon works fine.

Open spool spread.

Close spool shut off.



Guess what it will be replaced with.........................another simple Vicon..........with no electrics.

Whoa!!! Back up there flash! All this new fangled hydraulics nonsense. Whats wrong with sticking your arm out the back window and pulling a manual lever to turn it on and off??

 

[Andyrob]

I wanted something that could do auto steering in the future, do VRA for P and K now and something we could switch from cab to cab to use the GPS feature. So we got the Trimble.

My "bash sales man" part it aimed at the big agricultural companies that sell the GPS but don't know anything about it.

Topcon salesman said it wasn't really what he did and never even quoted and my Trimble was given to me in a box and that was it. In the end it turned out I was short of Trimble cable that allowed the Kuhn to talk the Trimble. This took 6 months to sort out and leaves me currently with 30t of base fertiliser that should be spread by now.

Well, thats a great sales man.

Having sold an EDW, one step below the GeoSpread, We have 3 hours booked with the customer when it dries up to teach him the layout and operation of the machne gps and how to set the machine.

Maybe you didnt push hard enough with the tellus, as you never know whats around the corner with it

 

[billboy 1]

On my 16th season with my Kuhn 1131, covers approximately 2000 acres a year. It's I had new viens every 2 years and one st of discs plus 4 or 5 sets of gearbox bearings. I have looked at it for the passed 6 years and wondered if I should replace it. Still got it and will keep it until the tin worm gets it. I love toys, but to keep my family farm profitable, simple well made basic kit is the way forward. A guidance box for grassland is a must mind as it doubles output.

Cheers BB

sounds like triggers broom lol

 

[shakerator]

Auto guide is great

Drill at night

Spread at night

Map posts, black grass, wet spots, print compliance maps.

 

[Yale]

Our neighbour had a GPS thingy on his drilling tractor - what a dog's dinner it was when it came up !

Whoa!!! Back up there flash! All this new fangled hydraulics nonsense. Whats wrong with sticking your arm out the back window and pulling a manual lever to turn it on and off??

Unfortunately when it is bought second hand you don't have much option.

The spreader suits fine at the moment,especially as we have some steep land to spread so need something light with a low centre of gravity,even on a 140 horse tractor I would'nt like anything heavier on the back.

 

[Clever Dic]

Auto guide is great

Drill at night

Spread at night

Map posts, black grass, wet spots, print compliance maps.

Do bugger all during the day,
Call IT specialist during day
Precision farming specialist during day on holiday,
Pay during the day,
Sob quietly during another wasted day.

 

[Cowabunga]

I recently commented on this forum that this stuff was not simple to set up, not simple to use and somewhat costly to run. Or words to that effect.

I run a weigh cell machine and a simple GPS swathing-type display and that is as far as I would want ever to go. Having said that, if I was farming on a big enough scale with huge fields, I can see the benefits for auto-steering and mapping equipment. But all this field and yield/crop mapping and stuff is for people with a lot of out-of-season time on their hands to set it up properly and 'play' with, so that they can benefit in season. Something for them to do rather than shoot grouse [GDRFC]. People also with a LOT of technical competence and mega-patience.

Even when it has been set up to work perfectly, it will probably not work perfectly long term what with all the extra electronics and actuators working in a wet and extremely corrosive environment. There will be the same faff again when another tractor is fitted to the implement. And not many drivers will be capable or wish to use it properly, which in itself could be a major issue on a big farm.

So think carefully before buying these things. I don't regret buying my machine, but I'm a particular kind of sad barsteward that does get a kick out conquering of this kind of stuff. If you are like me, go for it, but with your eyes open. Don't listen to the salesman that says that it is the road to milk and honey. It does have advantages but also the disadvantages and difficulties can be frustrating and are not insignificant. You have to weigh-up [no pun intended] the pros and cons for yourselves.

 

[shakerator]

Do bugger all during the day,
Call IT specialist during day
Precision farming specialist during day on holiday,
Pay during the day,
Sob quietly during another wasted day.

You are right there is downtime and we have had one or 2 issues.

Probably 5 hours downtime against about 500 saved in narrow working windows

As above I'm a stubborn sod and every investment made here was a sound decision, I can make the figures fit To prove I've never made a mistake