Are the GOV going to let farming go to the wall?

[ajd132]

Subsidies going-whatever we will deal with it. It’s trade that can royally screw us and is now out of our control after voting for brexit. I’m in a fortunate position that my parents have always run a very lean and profitable business after starting from nearly nothing, it’s up to to me now to make the most of what’s happening.

 

[Demolition Man]

With age comes experience.

Where will the 'new age' young entrepreneurs learn the 'craft' of this industry when the oldies have been shoved out?..

Sure, if they've been to college they will know all the theory - but that isn't even half the battle in the real world. It doesn't help tuition these days is almost all classroom based with minimal practical.

I'd like to see one of these entrepreneurs take a crack at lambing 1000 ewes straight out of a class room - because they are the future

There would be a high % fail in the first 2 years in this industry.

Maybe a young person may take a different approach to keeping sheep to what you perceive to be the required method. A lot o New Zealand farmers take a hands off attitude during lambing and let their sheep get on with it. I was told that pre subsidy they had 56 million sheep (I think) and now they have 29 million sheep but still produce the same quantity of lamb (also on less land). Our major drawback to adopting this system of course is public footpaths and interfering joe public. But where there’s a will there’s a way. I kept easycare sheep in the past and only Intervened twice with 300 (lambing outside) biggest problem was ravens . My father had previously been lambing mules/suffolks indoors for 40 years.I was quite surprised when he said he had been wasting his time lambing indoors conventinally when he should have bought easycare years ago and made his life a lot easier.

 

[Cowcorn]

Exactly that’s why what ever happens dairy will be allowed to carry on as before. Nothing to see here.

Will they now ? If every farmer goes spring calving and a few of the big Arable estates grass down for the same who is going to pay for the stainless steel ? Not that long ago Irish co ops were buying milk from the spring surge in the uk for buttons as there was nowhere to process it .
To much positive farmers hot and air im afraid lazy, as an antidote you should read every page on the potato threads to see what happens when the market gets out of balance and what a few extra acres or in your case litres will do to prices.

 

[Clever Dic]

First they tried to finish us off with BSE, then they had another go with foot and mouth...now they are having a good go by telling everyone to go vegan and ditch livestock to save the planet....so to summarise I think they’re pretty happy to let us sink without trace

I am slightly bewildered at why the government was responsible for BSE and foot and mouth..?
I am no expert so educate me but I thought BSE came about by feeding herbivores animal protein they would never naturally eat and this was not forced on farmers they chose to feed this type of material .
As for foot and mouth I thought it was caused by individuals again not doing what they should by law re food hygiene not an affliction caused by government.
I do believe the government made funds available to help farmers afflicted..
Have I got this wrong.?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I am slightly bewildered at why the government was responsible for BSE and foot and mouth..?
I am no expert so educate me but I thought BSE came about by feeding herbivores animal protein they would never naturally eat and this was not forced on farmers they chose to feed this type of material .
As for foot and mouth I thought it was caused by individuals again not doing what they should by law re food hygiene not an affliction caused by government.
I do believe the government made funds available to help farmers afflicted..
Have I got this wrong.?

Yes the compensation seemed exceptionally high...the cynic would suggest so you took the money and ran...

 

[Clever Dic]

Yes the compensation seemed exceptionally high...the cynic would suggest so you took the money and ran...

Regarding me you could not be more wrong.... never had livestock of any sort other than horses...

 

[Clever Dic]

Yes the compensation seemed exceptionally high...the cynic would suggest so you took the money and ran...

And your case for blaming the government ...?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

And your case for blaming the government ...?

For the foot and mouth...I can only go on the rumours, but seeing as you’ve never kept livestock you won’t of heard them

 

[czechmate]

And your case for blaming the government ...?

 

[wr.]

The glory years are over
We are all doomed

 

[Nithsdale]

Maybe a young person may take a different approach to keeping sheep to what you perceive to be the required method. A lot o New Zealand farmers take a hands off attitude during lambing and let their sheep get on with it. I was told that pre subsidy they had 56 million sheep (I think) and now they have 29 million sheep but still produce the same quantity of lamb (also on less land). Our major drawback to adopting this system of course is public footpaths and interfering joe public. But where there’s a will there’s a way. I kept easycare sheep in the past and only Intervened twice with 300 (lambing outside) biggest problem was ravens . My father had previously been lambing mules/suffolks indoors for 40 years.I was quite surprised when he said he had been wasting his time lambing indoors conventinally when he should have bought easycare years ago and made his life a lot easier.

If you knew me, you wouldn't suggest I could take a more hands off approach
I lamb 600 ewes outside, in March, at 6-800ft in SW Scotland.

My point is, when the sh!t hits the fan - be it disease, weather or any other unforseen problem - book theory does not 'best' experience of having been through it before. Without an old hand giving guidance whilst the younger person gains a physical, practical apprenticeship the new entrant could well struggle in the first few years until they build up that valuable hands on experience.


You can not be taught in a classroom how the weather rolls in on your farm. Where ewes would gather/hide/shelter or how quickly you need to act if - WHEN - the weather turns bad and pulls newborn lambs down.

 

[Cowabunga]

I am slightly bewildered at why the government was responsible for BSE and foot and mouth..?
I am no expert so educate me but I thought BSE came about by feeding herbivores animal protein they would never naturally eat and this was not forced on farmers they chose to feed this type of material .
As for foot and mouth I thought it was caused by individuals again not doing what they should by law re food hygiene not an affliction caused by government.
I do believe the government made funds available to help farmers afflicted..
Have I got this wrong.?

BSE came about because statutory rules governing the processing of animal byproducts were relaxed. Stuff that had been fed for generations quickly became unsafe and a transmitter of disease. It is not true that cattle are pure herbivores either. They are more that way than pigs but it is a matter of degrees. Lots of rumen bypass protein was sold as 'fishmeal' for 'high performance' feeds when they were actually rendered cattle. I never ever saw these products, concentrate or compound feeds, advertised as containing processed cow product.

Again there are rules in place to protect farmers from F&M disease. Restrictions on imports and on cooking swill for pigs. It is up to the Government to implement these safeguards on behalf of British farmers and the security and health of the UK's food supply and producers. The last outbreak of F&M disease was due to a Government laboratory 'playing around' with the virus while lacking the necessary bio-security. It was swilled out through a broken drain apparently. So the UK Government were totally responsible for all the terrible losses and costs of that outbreak.

Apparently in future they intend for the industry itself to bear all the cost of all animal diseases and risks. Good luck to them with that if they want to produce food in the UK in the long term. Which I actually doubt when it comes to ruminants.

 

[gone up the hill]

And your case for blaming the government ...?

You haven't got a clue what your talking about when it comes to F+M!

For starters how did it first get into the Country/ or get released by somewhere like Pirbright?? are you really saying that its farmers fault it came into the UK/ it got let out from a lab ??

If it hadn't come into the UK/ been let slip out by a lab then livestock movements would not have been able to spread it!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

BSE came about because statutory rules governing the processing of animal byproducts were relaxed. Stuff that had been fed for generations quickly became unsafe and a transmitter of disease. It is not true that cattle are pure herbivores either. They are more that way than pigs but it is a matter of degrees. Lots of rumen bypass protein was sold as 'fishmeal' for 'high performance' feeds when they were actually rendered cattle. I never ever saw these products, concentrate or compound feeds, advertised as containing processed cow product.

Again there are rules in place to protect farmers from F&M disease. Restrictions on imports and on cooking swill for pigs. It is up to the Government to implement these safeguards on behalf of British farmers and the security and health of the UK's food supply and producers. The last outbreak of F&M disease was due to a Government laboratory 'playing around' with the virus while lacking the necessary bio-security. It was swilled out through a broken drain apparently. So the UK Government were totally responsible for all the terrible losses and costs of that outbreak.

Apparently in future they intend for the industry itself to bear all the cost of all animal diseases and risks. Good luck to them with that if they want to produce food in the UK in the long term. Which I actually doubt when it comes to ruminants.

I’m glad you gave a comprehensive reply...I couldn’t be remotely arsed

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I shall treat that with the contempt it deserves

 

[czechmate]

You haven't got a clue what your talking about when it comes to F+M!

For starters how did it first get into the Country/ or get released by somewhere like Pirbright?? are you really saying that its farmers fault it came into the UK/ it got let out from a lab ??

If it hadn't come into the UK/ been let slip out by a lab then livestock movements would not have been able to spread it!

Where did it come from in 67/68, can’t remember which it was now?

 

[ollie989898]

Nah always been a fan of the red pill. Served me well so far.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH- excellent references to the Matrix in this thread- because of the irony: in the film Morpheus warns Neo right before he takes the pill that all he offers 'is the truth, nothing more' at at least 50% of this forum can't handle the truth and prefer to be attached to the matrix, a world of make-believe.

 

[lazy farmer]

Will they now ? If every farmer goes spring calving and a few of the big Arable estates grass down for the same who is going to pay for the stainless steel ? Not that long ago Irish co ops were buying milk from the spring surge in the uk for buttons as there was nowhere to process it .
To much positive farmers hot and air im afraid lazy, as an antidote you should read every page on the potato threads to see what happens when the market gets out of balance and what a few extra acres or in your case litres will do to prices.

I’m sorry where did I suggest we all had to go spring calving. Also you appear to be unaware that if a buyer doesn’t want spring milk they either won’t take you on as a spring Calver or penalise the hell out of you. Finally
Milk is very much like potato’s prices go up and down regardless of how
Many spring producers there are. Apologies this doesn’t suit the negative agenda. Never mind.

 

[ollie989898]

With age comes experience.

Where will the 'new age' young entrepreneurs learn the 'craft' of this industry when the oldies have been shoved out?..

Sure, if they've been to college they will know all the theory - but that isn't even half the battle in the real world. It doesn't help tuition these days is almost all classroom based with minimal practical.

I'd like to see one of these entrepreneurs take a crack at lambing 1000 ewes straight out of a class room - because they are the future

There would be a high % fail in the first 2 years in this industry.

What??

Copying the ways of yesteryear has worked real well for BHS. M and S and co???

You in the jungle now home-boy.

 

[ollie989898]

I’m sorry where did I suggest we all had to go spring calving. Also you appear to be unaware that if a buyer doesn’t want spring milk they either won’t take you on as a spring Calver or penalise the hell out of you. Finally
Milk is very much like potato’s prices go up and down regardless of how
Many spring producers there are. Apologies this doesn’t suit the negative agenda. Never mind.

Just a bit more and you will sound like a farming version of Master Yoda. Milk many cows I do not.