Are the RPA incentivised to withhold payments due?

[crazy_bull]

Applied for BPS as per usual on time and complete..... or so I thought. We are eligible and have claimed the young farmer top up for the last 2 years, was advised by an RPA advisor on the phone that we only needed to provide the original application plus a letter signed and stating that the business structure had not changed. Successfully did that in 2018, however we made an error this year, apparently the box was not ticked that we wanted to claim YF top up so are not eligible, despite sending in the application form and signed letter as per 2018!!

No chance for a rectification of the error, just a flat no. We can see you intended to apply however due to that clerical error computer says no!

When we brought the farm we completed and applied for BPS the same week, which was 3 days late, despite sending a letter explaining the delay was due to late completion we got docked 3%, not the end of the world, but when they are paying some of my customers months/years late there ought to be some recourse back!

The mind boggles!

C B

 

[Hindsight]

Applied for BPS as per usual on time and complete..... or so I thought. We are eligible and have claimed the young farmer top up for the last 2 years, was advised by an RPA advisor on the phone that we only needed to provide the original application plus a letter signed and stating that the business structure had not changed. Successfully did that in 2018, however we made an error this year, apparently the box was not ticked that we wanted to claim YF top up so are not eligible, despite sending in the application form and signed letter as per 2018!!

No chance for a rectification of the error, just a flat no. We can see you intended to apply however due to that clerical error computer says no!

When we brought the farm we completed and applied for BPS the same week, which was 3 days late, despite sending a letter explaining the delay was due to late completion we got docked 3%, not the end of the world, but when they are paying some of my customers months/years late there ought to be some recourse back!

The mind boggles!

C B

I complete a number of BPS applications. Your error is why I check, double check and triple check these documents. Afraid I understand that box on the BPS application form has to be ticked. Your post sent small shivers down my spine! There by the grace of god go I.

 

[steveR]

I complete a number of BPS applications. Your error is why I check, double check and triple check these documents. Afraid I understand that box on the BPS application form has to be ticked. Your post sent small shivers down my spine! There by the grace of god go I.

I suspect most, if not all of us all will echo that sentiment... @Hindsight !

With all my applications, I tend to complete the application, Check it for all elements required, then shut the laptop/close the web page or file the paperwork, and then come back to it a day or two later for a final check through.

I find I look at the application with a fresh eye, and also reckon it's better done in the morning, after breakfast and the dogs walked.

 

[Steevo]

It's very much a case of double standards for sure.....! The sad thing is we all know the RPA are like this and almost come to expect it.

When the boot is on the other foot they want us to notify them within 14 days if we are not agreeable to something or else it will be implemented.



I must also add how helpful the general staff at RPA etc who have their feet on the ground dealing with farmers really are. They deserve a better framework too....they don't deserve to be getting complaints and moans from farmers sorting out issue after issue. They end up taking the flak for management etc. and are always kind, helpful and respectful I find.....they wish as much as we do that the rules were clearer, their hands weren't tied, and the system wasn't so utterly useless and over-complicated.

 

[steveR]

It's very much a case of double standards for sure.....! The sad thing is we all know the RPA are like this and almost come to expect it.

When the boot is on the other foot they want us to notify them within 14 days if we are not agreeable to something or else it will be implemented.



I must also add how helpful the general staff at RPA etc who have their feet on the ground dealing with farmers really are. They deserve a better framework too....they don't deserve to be getting complaints and moans from farmers sorting out issue after issue. They end up taking the flak for management etc. and are always kind, helpful and respectful I find.....they wish as much as we do that the rules were clearer, their hands weren't tied, and the system wasn't so utterly useless and over-complicated.

And I would also say that the same point could be made about many NE staff, it's the system....

 

[Socksitis]

@crazy_bull have you contacted your local MP and asked for assistance? I see what others say, but surely the young farmer payment can be judged on age, rather than ticking a box? There has to be a place for human error and an appeals process?

 

[crazy_bull]

@crazy_bull have you contacted your local MP and asked for assistance? I see what others say, but surely the young farmer payment can be judged on age, rather than ticking a box? There has to be a place for human error and an appeals process?

I have written back to them pleading my case, asking for them to re-consider as they are often making errors with our paperwork with which we have no re-course. Will wait and see what the reaction is, although am not hopeful.

The point about filling out and then coming back a few days later is a good one, as it will be with fresh eyes.

C B

 

[teslacoils]

Like universal credit, etc, the schemes are designed to be difficult to claim on purpose.

 

[GreenerGrass]

Hi @crazy_bull I too was paid my BPS without YF element. I am hoping that it is their mistake... Did you submit a formal query to discover what happened, how long did they take to get back?

I filled in the query form and emailed it 17th December having spoken to one person on the phone. I called them last week and said could they give me a guide or a timeframe for getting back to me and they said no, there is no guidance or requirements for them to respond in any time to queries raised. It seems madness. So I asked many times and each time he confirmed that there is no procedure and there actually is no obligation for them to respond within a timeframe of months or even years?!

 

[crazy_bull]

Hi @crazy_bull I too was paid my BPS without YF element. I am hoping that it is their mistake... Did you submit a formal query to discover what happened, how long did they take to get back?

I filled in the query form and emailed it 17th December having spoken to one person on the phone. I called them last week and said could they give me a guide or a timeframe for getting back to me and they said no, there is no guidance or requirements for them to respond in any time to queries raised. It seems madness. So I asked many times and each time he confirmed that there is no procedure and there actually is no obligation for them to respond within a timeframe of months or even years?!

I enquired early Dec, I think first week and then heard back last Thursday, I originally spoke with someone on the phone who confirmed they recieved my application as she could see it on our 'file' so couldn't understand why it was missed off payment. So asked me to send in an official query. However when someone looked into it they found the above in my original post.

Can you access your online application to see if you ticked the correct box.

C B

 

[GreenerGrass]

Thanks just had a look, young farmer box (G1) was ticked on mine, and I did send off and receive back the forms. Appreciate info on your timeframe, bet you were top of the pile initially. Will keep fingers crossed for you.

I'll update when they get back to me, I have my fingers crossed it is there mistake. But it does seem wrong that they are allowed to make mistakes with no consequences but if you or me does it's game over...

 

[crazy_bull]

Thanks just had a look, young farmer box (G1) was ticked on mine, and I did send off and receive back the forms. Appreciate info on your timeframe, bet you were top of the pile initially. Will keep fingers crossed for you.

I'll update when they get back to me, I have my fingers crossed it is there mistake. But it does seem wrong that they are allowed to make mistakes with no consequences but if you or me does it's game over...

Certainly is a case of do as I say not as I do.

C B

 

[B'o'B]

Certainly is a case of do as I say not as I do.

C B

You can say that again!

 

[Coximus]

Applied for BPS as per usual on time and complete..... or so I thought. We are eligible and have claimed the young farmer top up for the last 2 years, was advised by an RPA advisor on the phone that we only needed to provide the original application plus a letter signed and stating that the business structure had not changed. Successfully did that in 2018, however we made an error this year, apparently the box was not ticked that we wanted to claim YF top up so are not eligible, despite sending in the application form and signed letter as per 2018!!

No chance for a rectification of the error, just a flat no. We can see you intended to apply however due to that clerical error computer says no!

When we brought the farm we completed and applied for BPS the same week, which was 3 days late, despite sending a letter explaining the delay was due to late completion we got docked 3%, not the end of the world, but when they are paying some of my customers months/years late there ought to be some recourse back!

The mind boggles!

C B

The exact same happened with me on the 2017 YF claim, however the mistake was the agent filling it outs.

Went through the MP route, got nothing.
Right upto appeal.
Nothing
nada.

Flat out no - the complaints dept said it was not classed as an "obvious error" despite it being obvious in intent to claim (their words) as the 2016 documents had been sent off, and new ones produced as well so double documenting, and the agent notifying the RPA of the error on the tickbox as soon as noticed and still within days of the submission deadline.
Took two years to get to the no.
They also ended it nicely by pointing out that the 5 years the YF can be claimed ends on the 5th aniversary of the first claim, so I will only be able to claim 4 years.

If you get a different outcome please let me know as I will resurect my arguments.

 

[GreenerGrass]

Just got this letter from them today. Nothing to do with my appeal, probably going out to everyone, but just shows they make mistakes and it's not a problem!

 

[Hindsight]

The exact same happened with me on the 2017 YF claim, however the mistake was the agent filling it outs.

Went through the MP route, got nothing.
Right upto appeal.
Nothing
nada.

Flat out no - the complaints dept said it was not classed as an "obvious error" despite it being obvious in intent to claim (their words) as the 2016 documents had been sent off, and new ones produced as well so double documenting, and the agent notifying the RPA of the error on the tickbox as soon as noticed and still within days of the submission deadline.
Took two years to get to the no.
They also ended it nicely by pointing out that the 5 years the YF can be claimed ends on the 5th aniversary of the first claim, so I will only be able to claim 4 years.

If you get a different outcome please let me know as I will resurect my arguments.

Hi, interesting post. So, your agent notified the RPA of the error before May 15th, in writing? That is worrying as I assumed any errors notified before the 15th May would be accepted, and even accepted unpto June 6th, albeit with penalties.

 

[B'o'B]

Hi, interesting post. So, your agent notified the RPA of the error before May 15th, in writing? That is worrying as I assumed any errors notified before the 15th May would be accepted, and even accepted unpto June 6th, albeit with penalties.

The Agent would have been better to resubmit the whole application as that would have superseded any earlier versions. That’s how I’ve always understood how it works anyway. I often submit a rough version early on an and then resubmit the proper version

 

[Hindsight]

The Agent would have been better to resubmit the whole application as that would have superseded any earlier versions. That’s how I’ve always understood how it works anyway. I often submit a rough version early on an and then resubmit the proper version

Hi, yes, I was a bit slow yesterday evening. Agree if before May 15th resubmit a new application to supercede the previous. It may be the rules are written so that a new submission is the only way to correct that particular error? Even if May 15 to June 6 might still have been he correct approach of Young Farmer payment would have exceeded late submission penalties. Hey ho, there by the grace of god go I.

 

[Flat 10]

The exact same happened with me on the 2017 YF claim, however the mistake was the agent filling it outs.

Went through the MP route, got nothing.
Right upto appeal.
Nothing
nada.

Flat out no - the complaints dept said it was not classed as an "obvious error" despite it being obvious in intent to claim (their words) as the 2016 documents had been sent off, and new ones produced as well so double documenting, and the agent notifying the RPA of the error on the tickbox as soon as noticed and still within days of the submission deadline.
Took two years to get to the no.
They also ended it nicely by pointing out that the 5 years the YF can be claimed ends on the 5th aniversary of the first claim, so I will only be able to claim 4 years.

If you get a different outcome please let me know as I will resurect my arguments.

Surely your claim is against your agent? That’s what PI insurance is for?

 

[Steevo]

Surely your claim is against your agent? That’s what PI insurance is for?

You'd think so.....but I wouldn't be surprised if the agent had a wriggle out clause. A bit like accountants. They will prepare the paperwork for you, but you carry the can?