Autumn manure banned

[Mixedupfarmer]

Thanks for your vote @warksfarmer problem is I don’t think I have the time for any more NFU work with out risking my current business
And people also won’t like my tell them how it is approach

Here in lies the problem, those that should be running the NFU etc cannot afford the time away from their successful businesses.

 

[N.Yorks.]

RB209 is only guidance and as long as what you are doing can be justified there is no issue. Presumably the field where you were spreading the FYM had a requirement for the P&K according to soil tests and planned cropping? As long as you then followed RB209 and made an allowance for the N contained within the FYM when you top dressed in spring then there should be no reason for concern.

Yes, was thinking along similar lines. If you can also demonstrate that the land is low/medium (or whatever the EA definition is) for loss of nutrient into any water courses I think it'll be ok.

An example of a no spread situation would be:

Sloping field towards river/ditch.
Any material being surface spread when land is wet and more rain on the way.
No requirement for any N as crop/grass growth rate is minimal.
Existing high soil P and K indices (above index 2?)

If you just looking to get rid there will be no justification....... the case will have to be made - hence risk maps and nutrient plans and soil assessment.

 

[GeorgeK]

Maybe chopped straw would justify a need for additional N?

 

[Hindsight]

I'm probably wrong but I always thought RB209 was written for manufactured fertilisers, based on trial work funded by the fertiliser industry. Is it accurate when it comes to applying organic manure to land with fully active soil biology?

Any thoughts?

RB209 started a long time ago - somewhere in my filing system I have a 1970s version edition number three I think with the original ADAS Crown logo. A much slimmer volume than todays version! And just recommendations for inorganic fertilisers. Over the years the remit has expanded. The source of information and consultation within industry is wide. And thus trials information from manufacturers is used, but the major part I contend of information is derived from academic government funded institutions such as Rothamsted and ADAS (the old ADAS).

What, when it is at home. is land with a 'fully active soil biology'. Define please.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

RB209 started a long time ago - somewhere in my filing system I have a 1970s version edition number three I think with the original ADAS Crown logo. A much slimmer volume than todays version! And just recommendations for inorganic fertilisers. Over the years the remit has expanded. The source of information and consultation within industry is wide. And thus trials information from manufacturers is used, but the major part I contend of information is derived from academic government funded institutions such as Rothamsted and ADAS (the old ADAS).

What, when it is at home. is land with a 'fully active soil biology'. Define please.

It appears that a proportion of UK farmland has little active microbial or fungal life in it. These are critical to a fully functioning natural soil and impact greatly on the breakdown and availabilty of nutrients for crop use. As this is an evolving field of science I very much doubt RB209 takes much account of it. yet.

 

[B'o'B]

It appears that a proportion of UK farmland has little active microbial or fungal life in it. These are critical to a fully functioning natural soil and impact greatly on the breakdown and availabilty of nutrients for crop use. As this is an evolving field of science I very much doubt RB209 takes much account of it. yet.

Bit of an oxymoron though, because as soon as you use a soil for agriculture it ceases being natural.

 

[Hindsight]

It appears that a proportion of UK farmland has little active microbial or fungal life in it. These are critical to a fully functioning natural soil and impact greatly on the breakdown and availabilty of nutrients for crop use. As this is an evolving field of science I very much doubt RB209 takes much account of it. yet.

Have you made enquiries if RB209 takes account of this 'evolving field of science'. You statement seems more a supposition? Would you care to define the proportion of UK farmland so affected. And how will I be able to recognise it? Thank you.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Have you made enquiries if RB209 takes account of this 'evolving field of science'. You statement seems more a supposition? Would you care to define the proportion of UK farmland so affected. And how will I be able to recognise it? Thank you.

Straight answer: No. Hence my cautious tone. I will look into now though as you have prompted me.

 

[Chalky]

Probably should be a completely different thread, but having been to Groundswell, and like many being a little perplexed by the number of statements made about 'active' soils under particular regimes-I am left thinking that 'just because you say it-doesn;t make it so'.

Proof. Metrics. Tangibles.

Profit!

 

[Grass And Grain]

What about outdoor pigs?

You're not supposed to mention outdoor pigs. Farming industry and EA sweep the issue under the carpet and hope no-one notices.

1000 pigs fenced in onto 4 acres goes unchallenged, yet the EA say we can't spread a bit of cattle box muck.

 

[ajd132]

Probably should be a completely different thread, but having been to Groundswell, and like many being a little perplexed by the number of statements made about 'active' soils under particular regimes-I am left thinking that 'just because you say it-doesn;t make it so'.

Proof. Metrics. Tangibles.

Profit!

We have some metrics to prove this on longer term no till land, biology measurably more active and phosphate becoming more available.

 

[beefandsleep]

You're not supposed to mention outdoor pigs. Farming industry and EA sweep the issue under the carpet and hope no-one notices.

1000 pigs fenced in onto 4 acres goes unchallenged, yet the EA say we can't spread a bit of cattle box muck.

I see the EA are recruiting a lot of additional staff to police the new big stick regulatory regime we are about to be subjected to post SFP. I’m out.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

We have some metrics to prove this on longer term no till land, biology measurably more active and phosphate becoming more available.

Yes but the point of banning autumn manure is that if the soil is cold and wet, a lot of the nutrients and especially n just get rinsed off, however biologically active your soil is. They want us to spread at times of year so it goes into a growing crop instead of a watercourse. We should want that too, otherwise we're wasting resources and polluting at the same time.

 

[Against_the_grain]

When I put sewage sludge on my fields in front of a ww3 I see less take all, bigger stronger plants (which in turn capture more nutrients) and more yield at the end of the day. Surely this is agronomic justification

 

[ajd132]

Yes but the point of banning autumn manure is that if the soil is cold and wet, a lot of the nutrients and especially n just get rinsed off, however biologically active your soil is. They want us to spread at times of year so it goes into a growing crop instead of a watercourse. We should want that too, otherwise we're wasting resources and polluting at the same time.

You should be able to use it infront of a cover crop or wheat. Spreading in the spring here I fear will cause too much damage.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

If you compare the biomass of a cover crop to even a forward crop of wheat, there's clearly more of an uptake in the cover crop (depending on the species), which kind of proves their point really. Also spreading on a newly sown cover crop could be argued as a summer application anyway to get the best out of it.

 

[Banana Bar]

Maybe chopped straw would justify a need for additional N?

You’ll be lucky!

 

[ajd132]

If you compare the biomass of a cover crop to even a forward crop of wheat, there's clearly more of an uptake in the cover crop (depending on the species), which kind of proves their point really. Also spreading on a newly sown cover crop could be argued as a summer application anyway to get the best out of it.

What about before drilling a catch crop post osr which is then sowed with autumn wheat?

 

[Chalky]

sticks within the 'spirit'

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

What about before drilling a catch crop post osr which is then sowed with autumn wheat?

I would because it's in the middle of the growing season.