Autumn manure banned

[czechmate]

I see the EA are recruiting a lot of additional staff to police the new big stick regulatory regime we are about to be subjected to post SFP. I’m out.

Out of what please?

 

[curlietailz]

Well we’re gonna have to pile it up over winter in a field heap
Spread in spring then incorporate before drilling a spring barley or spring wheat

probably won’t need any other fertiliser then

 

[Deereone]

Anyone considered building their dung heaps in very thin rows up and down the field in the autumn the harrowing it in in the spring? Or is there legislation regarding the size and shape of a heap of sh!t?

 

[beefandsleep]

Out of what please?

Farming if this crap continues.

 

[Wombat]

Well we’re gonna have to pile it up over winter in a field heap
Spread in spring then incorporate before drilling a spring barley or spring wheat

probably won’t need any other fertiliser then

I wouldn’t want to try and get on before spring wheat as it will be way too late. We managed to get ours spread this year and the spring barley drilled Easter weekend but that was only as it turned nice and dry in a wet year we could end up spreading late April

 

[czechmate]

No matter how dry a clay soil appears in the spring, it isn’t deep down, so you do far more damage with heavy machinery in the spring

 

[Drillman]

I’ve told my cattle to refrain from having a dump in the grass fields after the end of august until we fetch them in at end of October.

Hope that makes the EA happy

 

[czechmate]

I’ve told my cattle to refrain from having a dump in the grass fields after the end of august until we fetch them in at end of October.

Hope that makes the EA happy

the grass will use the nutrients

 

[Drillman]

the grass will use the nutrients

I know that and you know that, but I asked the cows to play it safe as the clipboard and hi viz ijits ain’t that bright…..

 

[czechmate]

I know that and you know that, but I asked the cows to play it safe as the clipboard and hi viz ijits ain’t that bright…..

Just watch they don’t get on to any stubble

 

[Drillman]

Just watch they don’t get on to any stubble

Yes I have requested that they don’t do escaping either!

 

[Grass And Grain]

We've all been told (at least in NVZ's), to do a whole farm N production calculation for N from organic manure. Think it has to be below 170kgN/ha. I'd imagine many are up to that limit.

Max spreading limit is what? 250kg/ha.

Only time heavy, low lying land farms can practically get on is after harvest, or on a frost (not really allowed either).

Any small areas that might go in spring will take farmer way over the 250kg/ha limit. And said farmer will probably break the soil protection rulesby travelling when too wet and causing compaction/ruts.

We'll have to write down a post harvest catch crop of short term N capturing self-sown cereal volunteers.

Another case of, if it's written down correctly it will probably pass the inspector.

If sewage cake gets a derogation, then it's a fudge.

I thought only 10% of the N is available to growing crop anyway, which means 90% will be there for the NEXT winter. So is there really all so much point in disallowing autumb applications? Admittedly that 10% is probably quite soluble.

That said, I thought cultivated in (as would be applied in autumn) was better for ammonia capture. Spring top dressed very bad for ammonia release.

 

[Brisel]

No, if 10% is available to the next/current crop then 5% is available to the following one. Don’t confuse Total N with Available N.

 

[curlietailz]

So
If you can’t put muck on in the autumn on stubbles
And it’s too wet to put it onto stubbles in spring
Arable Farm without grass

when can we put it on ?

 

[Drillman]

So
If you can’t put muck on in the autumn on stubbles
And it’s too wet to put it onto stubbles in spring
Arable Farm without grass

when can we put it on ?

Apparently the 32nd of may will be ok, After lunch, but needs to be done before 1pm

 

[teslacoils]

Get some grass planted, and paste it on. None of this "mix it in" either. 40t/ha on after first cut will have vanished by second.....

 

[Grass And Grain]

No, if 10% is available to the next/current crop then 5% is available to the following one. Don’t confuse Total N with Available N.

Ok, yes you're right, I made a rookie error saying 90% will be available for next crop.

I'll try and articulate more succinctly.

So 10% might be reasonably immediately available. EA don't want that applied in autumn, as they're saying it might leach. They're asking us to apply it in spring when the crop can use that 10%.

Let's say we make an application each spring.

If, as you say, 5% is available each year after the initial application, that takes say 20 years to slowly become available at 5% per year (not perfect maths, but stick with it).

So I've been applying FYM each year for past 20 years. That means there is 20 years of applications providing about 5% each of available N per year. That's equivalent of 100% of a single application being made available. Some of that will be in summer, and some over winter (maybe more in summer than winter, but still possibly a significant dollop over winter).

Are the EA worrying about that 10% from the immediate application, when a bigger amount is actually coming available from the historic applications?

Therefore, is the difference made between either an autumn or spring application relatively insignificant?

 

[Grass And Grain]

If someone grows blackgrass in with their cereal crops, is that grass, and hence has a N requirement and justified need? I've seen plenty of fields which fit that criteria!

 

[Brisel]

Ok, yes you're right, I made a rookie error saying 90% will be available for next crop.

I'll try and articulate more succinctly.

So 10% might be reasonably immediately available. EA don't want that applied in autumn, as they're saying it might leach. They're asking us to apply it in spring when the crop can use that 10%.

Let's say we make an application each spring.

If, as you say, 5% is available each year after the initial application, that takes say 20 years to slowly become available at 5% per year (not perfect maths, but stick with it).

So I've been applying FYM each year for past 20 years. That means there is 20 years of applications providing about 5% each of available N per year. That's equivalent of 100% of a single application being made available. Some of that will be in summer, and some over winter (maybe more in summer than winter, but still possibly a significant dollop over winter).

Are the EA worrying about that 10% from the immediate application, when a bigger amount is actually coming available from the historic applications?

Therefore, is the difference made between either an autumn or spring application relatively insignificant?

You are applying logic. That has no place in the EA…! I fail to understand why they want to swap leaching for airborne emissions, but here we are.

More seriously, what you describe is less common in arable but quite common in intensive livestock. I would be interested to see which emits more nitrates, but suspect it’s the intensive livestock applying slurry to every acre every year in higher rainfall areas that grow better grass.

 

[czechmate]

Ok, yes you're right, I made a rookie error saying 90% will be available for next crop.

I'll try and articulate more succinctly.

So 10% might be reasonably immediately available. EA don't want that applied in autumn, as they're saying it might leach. They're asking us to apply it in spring when the crop can use that 10%.

Let's say we make an application each spring.

If, as you say, 5% is available each year after the initial application, that takes say 20 years to slowly become available at 5% per year (not perfect maths, but stick with it).

So I've been applying FYM each year for past 20 years. That means there is 20 years of applications providing about 5% each of available N per year. That's equivalent of 100% of a single application being made available. Some of that will be in summer, and some over winter (maybe more in summer than winter, but still possibly a significant dollop over winter).

Are the EA worrying about that 10% from the immediate application, when a bigger amount is actually coming available from the historic applications?

Therefore, is the difference made between either an autumn or spring application relatively insignificant?

It’s a nice idea that muck applied 20 years ago is still providing N but I am sure that that has long gone.