- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
FFS is the bull worth more that his life
Bad tempered bull......
- Thread starter happycows
- Start date
- Location
- Bedfordshire
I think bull pens make them worse.
I had a nutritionist tell me to keep the bulls separate from the cows, it was alright for him to say that, but he didn't have to bed them up,
I had a nutritionist tell me to keep the bulls separate from the cows, it was alright for him to say that, but he didn't have to bed them up,
Princess Pooper
Member
- Location
- East Mids
Our bull goes in the bull pen for a few hours a day when he's with the cows in winter, mainly so he's not getting all the feed the cows are, but it also means we have somewhere secure if we ever did need to pen him away. I'd never leave him in there for days at a time. He is in with others all the time apart from that, either working, or with in-calf animals, not stressing away on his own.
In laws have these pens for their holstien bulls , when they start causing problems, some have gone in there at 15 months , they have a fecking evil bull in there at the moment but is off very soon.
happycows
Member
- Location
- North Devon Cornwall border
On reflection I think i was as much to blame as the bull and it was just plain stupid even walking in trying to separate a cow in the mood he was in. I suspect I've not done myself any favours by feeding him and handling him as much as I have. He has no fear of me.
I did In fact have no excuse other than it was late dinner time and I just wanted to do this one last one, not to spend 5 minutes and separate the bull and I didn't even need to get in with him to do it. Just meant opening and closing some gates and spending a few minutes to get straight. Truth is I was complacent and didn't think he'd do what he did and I am lucky to have got away with it.
I've spent all my life working with cows and only the ever a couple of Bulls.
Watching the clip of Twist, you probably couldn't say he was any worse than the way he behaved. There must be 1000's of nasty Bulls in bull beef systems up and down the country.......but they still keep them year in year out.
I do have decent pens, sheds and gates. Maybe a bull pen that he can have his feed in integrated in there so you can be safe and confine him from the rest is what's needed and some more common sense. There is no way he's going to field anyway.
As gran used to say more speed less haste.....
I did In fact have no excuse other than it was late dinner time and I just wanted to do this one last one, not to spend 5 minutes and separate the bull and I didn't even need to get in with him to do it. Just meant opening and closing some gates and spending a few minutes to get straight. Truth is I was complacent and didn't think he'd do what he did and I am lucky to have got away with it.
I've spent all my life working with cows and only the ever a couple of Bulls.
Watching the clip of Twist, you probably couldn't say he was any worse than the way he behaved. There must be 1000's of nasty Bulls in bull beef systems up and down the country.......but they still keep them year in year out.
I do have decent pens, sheds and gates. Maybe a bull pen that he can have his feed in integrated in there so you can be safe and confine him from the rest is what's needed and some more common sense. There is no way he's going to field anyway.
As gran used to say more speed less haste.....
You fekkin idiot!
Bad temperament breeds bad temperament.
If you want a herd of nasty cows, move to Spain and become a Matador.
We bought semen off a bull, who later became unruly. His daughters can't take stress, run round the fields like lunatics, and would kill anything that moves when they calve.
Last straws of semen from said bull got poured down the drain. Best end to it. working on removing all traces of him from the herd as we speak........
Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
It sounds like you have invested a fair bit into this bull so get some straws off him asap then get rid. Farming is hard enough as it is without something like this.
I wouldn't be afraid to breed from him we had a friesian bull a few years ago that went nasty he went up the road not long after but has left us with some of the most quietest cows we have had.
I wouldn't be afraid to breed from him we had a friesian bull a few years ago that went nasty he went up the road not long after but has left us with some of the most quietest cows we have had.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
There is always one if not two sweeper bulls on the farm here. Today there are three, two of which are in use. I breed my own and keep a regular supply coming through. Covers against risks of transmission of undesirable traits, poor fertility, and poor temperament.
Virtually every dairy bull here will become too risky to justify keeping. But I consider each and every bull to be a risk. There is no such thing as a safe bull, so its a matter of managing the risk until it increases beyond the benefits. If I were you, I wouldn't be culling him just yet. You've taken your first important step in understanding these animals I.e. getting the sh!t scared out of you.
So what can you do? I never ever condone abusing animals. However, I might consider a bit of strong handling with the stick to be useful, if he requires it. It's not that you can take him on. It's not that you should agitate him. But it's that you should place that element of fear and doubt in his head. Some day, when you swing the stick and he pauses for a moment or steps back, a brief but potentially life saving space for you to exit is created. Needless to say you always have a stick with you when you are near him, and always have one eye on him, other on your exit.
Secondly, a bull well fed and under worked is tricky. Put him in to serve cows in cubicles (though he's currently too young) and he will very likely become a much softer animal to handle. For a while that is.
Look at your cubicle shed. Aim to divide it with gates at times when you need to go in. Even in two is useful. That way, you close off bull with some cows in one half, while you bed the other. If he's interested in you, then open the gate and let him through, closing the gate behind him. Then immediately step over the gate away from him, or through a head to head cubicle. Simple but effective. Even better if you have a collecting yard at your robot with non return gates. Pause robot, lure him into the yard, and then exit and do your work.
He actually probably needs a little time and handling in this way to settle him in to your farm. But treat him as a constant risk. Expect him not to have a long stay. Year, 18months will be good going. By the way, bull and cow temperament are not linked. It's all about hormones. That's why they are all dangerous. That's why a bulling cow can be very dangerous if your back is turned. But you automatically manage it by not having your back turned.
Virtually every dairy bull here will become too risky to justify keeping. But I consider each and every bull to be a risk. There is no such thing as a safe bull, so its a matter of managing the risk until it increases beyond the benefits. If I were you, I wouldn't be culling him just yet. You've taken your first important step in understanding these animals I.e. getting the sh!t scared out of you.
So what can you do? I never ever condone abusing animals. However, I might consider a bit of strong handling with the stick to be useful, if he requires it. It's not that you can take him on. It's not that you should agitate him. But it's that you should place that element of fear and doubt in his head. Some day, when you swing the stick and he pauses for a moment or steps back, a brief but potentially life saving space for you to exit is created. Needless to say you always have a stick with you when you are near him, and always have one eye on him, other on your exit.
Secondly, a bull well fed and under worked is tricky. Put him in to serve cows in cubicles (though he's currently too young) and he will very likely become a much softer animal to handle. For a while that is.
Look at your cubicle shed. Aim to divide it with gates at times when you need to go in. Even in two is useful. That way, you close off bull with some cows in one half, while you bed the other. If he's interested in you, then open the gate and let him through, closing the gate behind him. Then immediately step over the gate away from him, or through a head to head cubicle. Simple but effective. Even better if you have a collecting yard at your robot with non return gates. Pause robot, lure him into the yard, and then exit and do your work.
He actually probably needs a little time and handling in this way to settle him in to your farm. But treat him as a constant risk. Expect him not to have a long stay. Year, 18months will be good going. By the way, bull and cow temperament are not linked. It's all about hormones. That's why they are all dangerous. That's why a bulling cow can be very dangerous if your back is turned. But you automatically manage it by not having your back turned.
happycows
Member
- Location
- North Devon Cornwall border
Ok Jersey Bulls are notorious for being nasty buy I would not call the Jersey cow breed nasty at all, inquisitive, stubborn, greedy, fidgety yes, nasty no.
+1
Our bull is worse when he's bored-he's looking for something to amuse himself. When he's got a lady friend, he's straight through the parlour and doesn't look twice. But if you have to tell him off, he tends to get you back by lifting a gate off its hinges, or bending something
My grandad was hospitalised in the 60's by a bull. My granny heard him shouting and managed to drag him out. The bull came at her as she was dragging him and luckily caught the door with his horn and shut it on himself. My mum just remembers the bull being led into a trailer with a sack on his head. Grandad wouldn't have a b+w bull on the place after that.
My dad had numerous (relatively minor) run-ins with bulls. More the fact that he couldn't read them, and was never prepared/expecting them to turn........which they inevitably did
I had a close shave with a bull-similar age to yours @happycows
I'd just let them out after morning milking and as he walked over the slats he looked at me, and quick as a flash got his head into me and pushed me into the scraper tractor wheel. I ended up on the floor with him stood over me and I thought "this is where I get it". Luckily he looked at me and buggered off, but after that if he saw me in the shed, he'd bellow and set off towards me, because he knew he was boss, so I just avoided him. He didn't have the longest career (which was a shame because he left some belting cows
)I'd have to agree, and say get rid.
In my case it was a BB bull. Not a breed usually associated with bad temperament.
BELOWAVERAGE
Member
Your right about the common sense, get rid of the thing, I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing that bull was on the same premise's as my children.
happycows
Member
- Location
- North Devon Cornwall border
I never did plan to put him in the milking shed as I have no control over what he serves. I want to put the cows I choose across the passage to him in a loose pen and am happy to have a few in calf or bullers with him too for company. Just need to get him in a safe zone when needed for everyone's best interests.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Well, splitting a bull from a bulling cow is what I would term one of the riskist things you can be doing. A lot riskier than running in the main cubicles with the risk control I suggested. And he will be constantly wound up looking over at and listening to cows on heat which you are AI'ing.
I know you want to pick and choose, but you are greatly increasing your risk. AI for six weeks, then turn him in for three, and so on. Why would you not be turning him out to grass with heifers in between? They need very minimal handling. Risk increases at the back end though at grass.
I know you want to pick and choose, but you are greatly increasing your risk. AI for six weeks, then turn him in for three, and so on. Why would you not be turning him out to grass with heifers in between? They need very minimal handling. Risk increases at the back end though at grass.
Flecks are notorious in this country ..bad tempered ,dangerous buggers. Neighbours last fleckvieh bull had to be guided with JCB onto wagon the day he went to the factory.
@Ballygreenan will prob have known this man..two weeks ago a 52 year old farmer went to separate his Ayrshire bull from the cows at milking time. The neighbours found him dead in the pen with the bull. He was a single man and lived for his small herd of Ayrshire cows,he could often be heard talking to them...they were all sold last Tuesday.
You know what to do.
@Ballygreenan will prob have known this man..two weeks ago a 52 year old farmer went to separate his Ayrshire bull from the cows at milking time. The neighbours found him dead in the pen with the bull. He was a single man and lived for his small herd of Ayrshire cows,he could often be heard talking to them...they were all sold last Tuesday.
You know what to do.
@Headless chicken has a flec cow that's bad tempered. Seem like a less than ideal breed.
With regards to fattening bulls, I've fattend 0000s of bulls. We never went in the pen, and had a handling setup that meant you never were in direct contact. That said one pinned the old man on the floor 10 years ago. His leg still gives him trouble to this day. That bull was in the abbitior within 24 hours. We've loaded bulls into the box with a landrover and gate on the front because of temper, and shot one in a pen because there was to much risk to human life. Complacency will get the better of you if your not careful. Just hang the bull up and count yourself lucky.
With regards to fattening bulls, I've fattend 0000s of bulls. We never went in the pen, and had a handling setup that meant you never were in direct contact. That said one pinned the old man on the floor 10 years ago. His leg still gives him trouble to this day. That bull was in the abbitior within 24 hours. We've loaded bulls into the box with a landrover and gate on the front because of temper, and shot one in a pen because there was to much risk to human life. Complacency will get the better of you if your not careful. Just hang the bull up and count yourself lucky.
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
That will be the regressive Simmental trait coming out, I have a clearly explained policy here "Any Simmental found on the farm will be shot, quicker than you can say whose animal is it".... and no , I'm not joking either.
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
My experience with Jersey bulls is that they tend to be predictably dangerous, but beef bulls tend to be unpredictably dangerous.
cornishfarmer
Member
Keep the bull..... And up your life insurance
Granny would probably say once bitten twice shy and I'd rather have you liking and the bull dead rather than other way around.
But the good thing about farming is you are your own boss and can do whatever you thinks best. Bull Could have just been over stressed for 20 mins and could be good forever more
Granny would probably say once bitten twice shy and I'd rather have you liking and the bull dead rather than other way around.
But the good thing about farming is you are your own boss and can do whatever you thinks best. Bull Could have just been over stressed for 20 mins and could be good forever more
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
If an animal knows it can do something to its own benefit, it will do it.
Better to teach respect from an early age than have to try to establish that respect when it has already learnt that it is stronger than the human handler.
Better to teach respect from an early age than have to try to establish that respect when it has already learnt that it is stronger than the human handler.