basic income 4 farmers

[Ffermer Bach]

British farmers want basic income to cope with post-Brexit struggles

Schemes to replace EU subsidies will not plug gap left by loss of EU subsidies for most farmers

www.theguardian.com

 

[neilo]

It's certainly an interesting concept, and would turn the structure of UK agriculture on it's head. Lots of small 'farms' would spring up, largely spending that income locally. It wouldn't be much good for the agrochem industry, or for John Deere, etc though.

I'm surprised the usual 'I'm alright Jack' posters haven't already started ranting about it being nothing more than communism...

 

[wanton dwarf]

I'm surprised the usual 'I'm alright Jack' posters haven't already started ranting about it being nothing more than communism...

Why have a dog & all that.

 

[Hampton]

I get it, but what should it be?
Graduates are going into big firms at 30-40k!
Should a basic income for our skill set be £80k?
what does an MP earn? They always tell us they aren’t doing it for the money as the wage is lower than they could otherwise earn?
Don’t train drivers earn £80k for few hours? They are doing a public service for a private firm (like us).

 

[Ffermer Bach]

It there was a basic income, and it was capped at one income per claimant, so the Wildlife trusts, NT, RSPB and the likes of Knebb estates and especially the "buy a farm, claim grants to plant trees and sell the offsets" bois could only claim one income, I would be all for it.

 

[Hill Ground]

It there was a basic income, and it was capped at one income per claimant, so the Wildlife trusts, NT, RSPB and the likes of Knebb estates and especially the "buy a farm, claim grants to plant trees and sell the offsets" bois could only claim one income, I would be all for it.

Would this income be a set unit per acre and then any money you earnt farming be on top?

Hasn't the government just done away with this system?

 

[deleted user 837354]

I get it, but what should it be?
Graduates are going into big firms at 30-40k!
Should a basic income for our skill set be £80k?
what does an MP earn? They always tell us they aren’t doing it for the money as the wage is lower than they could otherwise earn?
Don’t train drivers earn £80k for few hours? They are doing a public service for a private firm (like us).

You can be a train driver if you want. Unusual hours, some tight restrictions on the work, plus medical considerations, not too dissimilar from pilots actually in that if you make a mistake potentially 300 lives will hang in the balance. Stiff training program mind. Most of them will be earning in excess of 80K, tube drivers even more again.

MPs don't earn enough money really, their expenses should be a matter of public record, no employing their spouse or children and no holding directorships or the like, if you're an MP you're an MP full time and have to attend parliament 80% of the time. Housing allowance for a residence in London, plus transport costs. Also ensure there are far fewer of them, same with the Lords.

 

[neilo]

It there was a basic income, and it was capped at one income per claimant, so the Wildlife trusts, NT, RSPB and the likes of Knebb estates and especially the "buy a farm, claim grants to plant trees and sell the offsets" bois could only claim one income, I would be all for it.

The group behind it have certainly got across the press anyway, and with a simple, coherent message.

I understand they are suggesting a basically universal income as well as enhanced environmental payments, so there would still be scope for RSPB etc to grab some of the pot unless it was capped.

There have been multiple suggestions on here over the years of similar, with a £20k payment per 'farmer', but I suspect it would need to be lower if environmental payments were coming from the same overall pot as well.

I'd not be opposed to something along those lines tbh, but the big boys would be screaming...

On the bright side, poor old @Bossfarmer would have something to agree with @Clive about.

 

[neilo]

Would this income be a set unit per acre and then any money you earnt farming be on top?

Hasn't the government just done away with this system?

Nothing to do with acreage, a set payment per farmer is suggested.
Profit/loss from your business would be on top.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Nothing to do with acreage, a set payment per farmer is suggested.
Profit)loss from your business would be on top.

Advantage, everyone could do "dog and stick" farming, which would be great for the wildlife.

 

[S J H]

It's certainly an interesting concept, and would turn the structure of UK agriculture on it's head. Lots of small 'farms' would spring up, largely spending that income locally. It wouldn't be much good for the agrochem industry, or for John Deere, etc though.

I'm surprised the usual 'I'm alright Jack' posters haven't already started ranting about it being nothing more than communism...

I’m alright Jack, and that is communism

 

[Clive]

Why don't we all just ask for our farms to be nationalised while we are at it hey ! ............ what a utterly stupid idea this is

 

[celtis man]

It there was a basic income, and it was capped at one income per claimant, so the Wildlife trusts, NT, RSPB and the likes of Knebb estates and especially the "buy a farm, claim grants to plant trees and sell the offsets" bois could only claim one income, I would be all for it.

In truth farmers have not had a real income for years just their pride to keep us going
Should the government do something or lose family farmers for good

 

[serf]

Ain't it funny how such a " scheme " seems to appear at a time when cattle and sheep prices are getting to where they should be and there's potential food shortages with the way the world is .

"They" didn't seem to GAF about such things when food was given away or dumped ....

 

[neilo]

Ain't it funny how such a " scheme " seems to appear at a time when cattle and sheep prices are getting to where they should be and there's potential food shortages with the way the world is .

"They" didn't seem to GAF about such things when food was given away or dumped ....

Such a scheme wouldn't push production up drastically, it would keep more people on the land and in rural communities, at the expense of the land hungry 'uber-efficient' ones.

It just might mean the environment gains permanently, rather than vast tracts of land being dumped in and out of SFI schemes when it suited with commodity prices? It's no good encouraging fauna one year, then starving it the next.

Do you think recent livestock prices are 'getting to where they should be', or just a short term spike on the back of local shortages? Personally, I think the summer will see a return to normality, but happy to sell you a flock of sheep if you think otherwise.

 

[Hampton]

Why don't we all just ask for our farms to be nationalised while we are at it hey ! ............ what a utterly stupid idea this is

I agree, and that was my point earlier. If they want to pay us a wage, then that wage should be commensurate with the civil service level.
For example, I am a director of our limited company. A deputy director in defra will be on approx £71k.
Dread to think what a director of a arms length body such as Ahdb or LIS will be on

 

[Hampton]

You can be a train driver if you want. Unusual hours, some tight restrictions on the work, plus medical considerations, not too dissimilar from pilots actually in that if you make a mistake potentially 300 lives will hang in the balance. Stiff training program mind. Most of them will be earning in excess of 80K, tube drivers even more again.

MPs don't earn enough money really, their expenses should be a matter of public record, no employing their spouse or children and no holding directorships or the like, if you're an MP you're an MP full time and have to attend parliament 80% of the time. Housing allowance for a residence in London, plus transport costs. Also ensure there are far fewer of them, same with the Lords.

Fully agree with all of that

 

[neilo]

Why don't we all just ask for our farms to be nationalised while we are at it hey ! ............ what a utterly stupid idea this is

How is it like nationalising farms in any way?
You efficient go-getters, who claim you don't need subsidy, can still forge ahead with scrapping over any land. You might even find those little farms that would flourish, or at least survive, under this scheme, might want to buy feed in from you.

 

[neilo]

Don't panic. Any basic income scheme for Ag is going to be a non-starter in this country anyway.
The CAP could have been used to encourage small farms and rural communities, much like it has been in most of Europe, but our govt decided to go the other way in their interpretation of those same rules.

 

[Headless chicken]

Such a scheme wouldn't push production up drastically, it would keep more people on the land and in rural communities, at the expense of the land hungry 'uber-efficient' ones.

It just might mean the environment gains permanently, rather than vast tracts of land being dumped in and out of SFI schemes when it suited with commodity prices? It's no good encouraging fauna one year, then starving it the next.

Do you think recent livestock prices are 'getting to where they should be', or just a short term spike on the back of local shortages? Personally, I think the summer will see a return to normality, but happy to sell you a flock of sheep if you think otherwise.

American beef prices are flying. Day old Angus’ over $1000 Holstein bulls at $700. It’s going to take some level of settling to get back to normal number