Blackgrass explanation?

[stef]

Hello,

i am farming in belgium and i'm reading the FarmerWeekly (uk) since one year now.
I 'm surprised by the blackgrass issue in UK; a lot of papers on this topic...

In belgium some case of resistance are known, but we are able, until now and in most of the case, to fight easily this weed using 300g/ha of Atlantis (bayers mesosulfuron +iodosulfuron).

I would like to know how this situation has been reached in UK?


regards

stef

 

[Flat 10]

Hello,

i am farming in belgium and i'm reading the FarmerWeekly (uk) since one year now.
I 'm surprised by the blackgrass issue in UK; a lot of papers on this topic...

In belgium some case of resistance are known, but we are able, until now and in most of the case, to fight easily this weed using 300g/ha of Atlantis (bayers mesosulfuron +iodosulfuron).

I would like to know how this situation has been reached in UK?


regards

stef

Where to begin? List as long as your arm but;
Poor rotations eg ww, ww, osr,
Maximum disturbance drills eg Vaderstad rapid,
Not ploughing and using sumo type machines to spread seed throughout soil profile
Insufficient attention paid to land drainage,
repeated use of same sorts of herbicides.
These are the main reasons that occur to me but the there are more,
You need to hope that you can learn from our mistakes Stef!
Welcome to the forum, I know of no other Belgians on here,

 

[stef]

Hi Flat10

Thanks for your answer.

All what you said are (was???) "almost" known as a theory here in Belgium.
The plough is still largely in usage. Rotation until now is still reasonable.
Traditional AG companies have so good commercials on the road that herbicide's dosage are not yet underestimated.
Their business is better if they sell more chemicals...


But, but... as the agricultural economic sector is more and more under pressure, a lot of new wave technicals are emerging on our lands in order to put down the costs like:

simplified soil work (no plough, less stubble clearing,...)
herbicides (fungicides and other chemicals) "small" dosage
...

This new wave lobby begins to be powerful and is persuading more and more farmers.

As farmers we all know that the nature can take some time to react, but soon or later (many years) an action always leads to a reaction.
So, yes, definitively I would like to share experience with other farming's technical in order to discard the already known problematic things

My fear is to reach some uncontrollable situations.
Examples now pop up, Roundup resistance in some USA areas, blackgrass in UK, and probably many more which are still not widely shared by the community.

I'm neither an ecologist and nor a chemicals's defendor, i'm just trying to keep a balance and keep things running

Best regards

Stef

 

[Flat 10]

You are ahead of the game. Well done Stef

 

[FarmerBruce]

One other big reason.... laziness!! If people got out there and had rouged their fields they would have seen the problem starting rather than waiting till it’s too late!

 

[turbo]

Don't want to get into an argument on the last Saturday of shooting season but the main thing that allowed bg to get bad was early drilling and low seed rates,all the other things that have been quoted on here are just excuses (except the drainage bit).2 wheats and osr rotation is still the best paying rotation here and by moving drilling back to the second part of October has been very good at controlling bg and that is using min till and a vaderstad drill

 

[Gong Farmer]

How long have you been applying Atlantis to black-grass populations? It worked brilliantly when first applied, but by the third or fourth application to the same field it was showing signs of failing. Those with longer rotations have obviously found it worked for longer.

Another issue is it controls other weeds, many of which don't emerge until spring so Atlantis applications were delayed and went onto big black-grass plants, which would have accelerated any resistance development.

 

[franklin]

Also climate. The UK is damp. Never really cold. Never really hot. Never really wet (except Wales) and never really dry. Blackgrass loves this constant dampness which enables it to germinate nearly all year round. Our soils hence are typically damp. The soils on which BG thrives are those which would have been left as grass, had it not been for government policy ie drainage grants and IACS. The mouldboard plough was invented for soils like these, and typically they are idea for blackgrass being poorly drained, seaonsally waterlogged, damp clay that is never to hot not too cold to stop weeds growing nor structure itself very well.

We have had the "all will be fine with many years of DD" but by reading this forum you will see that many of those on very heavy land have struggled or gone back to conventional tillage.

It doesnt help that the political will is to move away from residual herbicides to contact ones. Contact herbicdes on blackgrass are quite poor.

 

[Honest john]

Hello,

i am farming in belgium and i'm reading the FarmerWeekly (uk) since one year now.
I 'm surprised by the blackgrass issue in UK; a lot of papers on this topic...

In belgium some case of resistance are known, but we are able, until now and in most of the case, to fight easily this weed using 300g/ha of Atlantis (bayers mesosulfuron +iodosulfuron).

I would like to know how this situation has been reached in UK?


regards

stef

Atlantis did 100% job to start with if applied when warm late march.
It tailed off over 5 wheat crops till now BG just And carries on growing.
However it still controls many other grass weeds & BLW's.

 

[ollie989898]

The biggest thing that has played into the hands of the BG is min till in my humble opinion.

 

[stef]

Thank you for your contributions; quite interesting

I can only give you my personal data.
I'm using atlantis (300gr / ha) since 2005. At that time the isoproturon mixture 2.5L / ha + focus 0.5L / ha (fenoxaprop) had become insufficient.
Wheat comes back every 3 years.
Other crops: barley, sugarbeet, chicory, linen,
I use the policy "zero tolerance" for each crop; i mean that even if weed is not a problem for the crop yield I do the necessary to eliminate them.
after the wheat crop, i try to do 2-3 "surface tillage" in order to decrease the seed stock.
also the plow is largely used

 

[turbo]

The biggest thing that has played into the hands of the BG is min till in my humble opinion.

Min till no more caused BG problems than dd will solve it

 

[ollie989898]

Min till no more caused BG problems than dd will solve it

I think Min-till exacerbated BG problems. All this min tillage kit does is spread seed through the soil profile so it emerges at random times.

Either plough or use very shallow tillage or none at all.

 

[Will 1594]

The biggest thing that has played into the hands of the BG is min till in my humble opinion.

Can we have some scientific evidence of this , and your comment about ploughing it will grow through ploughing ,how ever well ploughed , and how does no till work on heavy land , how do you get the water away ,

 

[Will 1594]

Min till no more caused BG problems than dd will solve it

Wheat at £80 would have as much to do with it as owt ,

 

[DanniAgro]

The banning of Isoproturon did immense damage to the control of bg, certainly on my farm. IIRC it was not subject to resistance buildup like Atlantis is, and 4lt of IPU plus 4.5lt of pendi always controlled it for years.

 

[Warnesworth]

Hello,

i am farming in belgium and i'm reading the FarmerWeekly (uk) since one year now.
I 'm surprised by the blackgrass issue in UK; a lot of papers on this topic...

In belgium some case of resistance are known, but we are able, until now and in most of the case, to fight easily this weed using 300g/ha of Atlantis (bayers mesosulfuron +iodosulfuron).

I would like to know how this situation has been reached in UK?


regards

stef

Declining soil calcium levels ...

 

[Warnesworth]

Can we have some scientific evidence of this , and your comment about ploughing it will grow through ploughing ,how ever well ploughed , and how does no till work on heavy land , how do you get the water away ,

There are plenty of people successfully no-tilling on heavy land, and at altitude i.e. high rainfall, you just have to follow a good system...

 

[FarmerBruce]

I think Min-till exacerbated BG problems. All this min tillage kit does is spread seed through the soil profile so it emerges at random times.

Either plough or use very shallow tillage or none at all.

So how do you stop the land cracking down to all different depths in June/July when seed is shed

 

[turbo]

So how do you stop the land cracking down to all different depths in June/July when seed is shed

Very good point and one the dd s haven't been able to answer