Blue Tongue Vaccinetion?

[farmer james]

My vet has said they can get a vaccine, it is a single two ml dose for sheep so I think it is the one where immunity kicks in after four weeks so it will be November before they have full immunity.
Cost is £4/ dose plus time doing it.
Is it worthwhile for immunity going into winter?
Thanks for your views
FJ

 

[yellowbelly]

My vet has said they can get a vaccine, it is a single two ml dose for sheep so I think it is the one where immunity kicks in after four weeks so it will be November before they have full immunity.
Cost is £4/ dose plus time doing it.
Is it worthwhile for immunity going into winter?
Thanks for your views
FJ

IIRC, they said last night, 3 different vaccines are available.(I think some are 2 jabs and one is a single jab, but I'm not 100% sure on that). There was no useful advice as to whether to vaccinate or not at this stage. I think the general feeling (amongst us farmers) was to wait at the moment.

It appears symptoms in the UK are not as bad as on the Continent (not fatal - stock is recovering here). They did say that where is was worst in Holland cases had resulted in up to 75% deaths. Vaccinating reduced this to 25%.
The APHA vet couldn't give a reason why it didn't affect our animals as much.

Apparently pregnant animals that are infected, and get over it, can give birth to calves/lambs later on, that will carry it.
Infected tups and bulls can pass it on to offspring that can be born with it. In those cases, that will help to carry the disease 'over winter', which is, IMHO, a bigger danger as it will mean it is here in the summer months when there are more midges about.

 

[farmer james]

IIRC, they said last night, 3 different vaccines are available.(I think some are 2 jabs and one is a single jab, but I'm not 100% sure on that). There was no useful advice as to whether to vaccinate or not at this stage. I think the general feeling (amongst us farmers) was to wait at the moment.

It appears symptoms in the UK are not as bad as on the Continent (not fatal - stock is recovering here). They did say that where is was worst in Holland cases had resulted in up to 75% deaths. Vaccinating reduced this to 25%.
The APHA vet couldn't give a reason why it didn't affect our animals as much.

Apparently pregnant animals that are infected, and get over it, can give birth to calves/lambs later on, that will carry it.
Infected tups and bulls can pass it on to offspring that can be born with it. In those cases, that will help to carry the disease 'over winter', which is, IMHO, a bigger danger as it will mean it is here in the summer months when there are more midges about.

Thank you for that, it does seem that over here the outbreaks are not as severe, but saying that 10% deaths would warrant the cost of doing it.
300 of my ewes are already out with the tup, unsure as the best course of action.
FJ

 

[yellowbelly]

unsure as the best course of action.

From what I heard, last night, so are APHA, DEFRA and Pirbright.

They're doing random surveillance testing on the western edges of the RZ (apparently they just rock up the day after they tell you and want to test everything - that hadn't gone down too well with those that have already been done) to see if it's moving inland and if they need to extend the zone.
Apparently the midges don't get carried on the wind anywhere near as far overland as they do over the sea.

They know a lot but there's a hell of a lot they don't know.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

When do the midges start up again in the spring ? Is it as soon as the weather warms up or do they have a life cycle where they are more prevalent in the Autumn.
I can’t understand how we had infected animals in this country last Autumn/ Winter but no clinical cases until August.

 

[farmer james]

From what I heard, last night, so are APHA, DEFRA and Pirbright.

They're doing random surveillance testing on the western edges of the RZ (apparently they just rock up the day after they tell you and want to test everything - that hadn't gone down too well with those that have already been done) to see if it's moving inland and if they need to extend the zone.
Apparently the midges don't get carried on the wind anywhere near as far overland as they do over the sea.

They know a lot but there's a hell of a lot they don't know.

Well I am on the western edge of the RZ as half the sheep are in bucks outside of it whilst the rest are just over the border in beds.
FJ

 

[yellowbelly]

When do the midges start up again in the spring ? Is it as soon as the weather warms up or do they have a life cycle where they are more prevalent in the Autumn.
I can’t understand how we had infected animals in this country last Autumn/ Winter but no clinical cases until August.

Midges are 'temperature dependent'.
Their life cycle is 3-4 weeks (but can be months)
Some can overwinter in sheds, nooks and crannies in trees etc.
Only a small proportion are infected but because there's millions of them that's no consolidation.
They are very effective at passing it on with just one bite.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

So in theory, if it died down in say November because it’s too cold for the midges, it could kick off again as early as say May next year if the weather got warm.
It’s just that the experts where predicting for it to start most likely in August/ September this year, which proved to be the case, and not necessarily before.
I was wondering if there was a reason for this.

 

[yellowbelly]

So in theory, if it died down in say November because it’s too cold for the midges, it could kick off again as early as say May next year if the weather got warm.
It’s just that the experts where predicting for it to start most likely in August/ September this year, which proved to be the case, and not necessarily before.
I was wondering if there was a reason for this.

That was because it came over from the Continent.
Defra's modelling predicted it fairly accurately looking at the slides of wind/weather patterns they showed us last night.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

That was because it came over from the Continent.
Defra's modelling predicted it fairly accurately looking at the slides of wind/weather patterns they showed us last night.

You would think with dozens of detected cases here last back end and presumably others that where undetected, it would have kicked of in the Spring as in my view there would be a “ reservoir “ of infected animals for the midges to bite.

 

[yellowbelly]

You would think with dozens of detected cases here last back end and presumably others that where undetected, it would have kicked of in the Spring as in my view there would be a “ reservoir “ of infected animals for the midges to bite.

Yes you would, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe any overwintered midges that survived here weren't carriers
If the infected animals had 'got over it' , during the winter, they would not have been able to pass it on.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Yes you would, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe any overwintered midges that survived here weren't carriers
If the infected animals had 'got over it' , during the winter, they would not have been able to pass it on.

Fair comment, but then all the animals abroad could get over it in the winter and it would stop but it doesn’t seem to work like that.

 

[Bignor Farmer]

It’s very difficult trying to get up to speed on bluetongue. Vaccine isn’t available to us at the moment but could be any day soon.

If I believe the vets then I’ve got to vaccinate everything asap because a severe outbreak could cause 50-75% mortality which is horrific! But I still might get up to 25% mortality (still horrific) and all sorts of other side affects like poor fertility and lethargy.

But the above scenario isn’t what’s happening on farm so it’s definitely not a clear cut decision?

What is life like on the continent for livestock farmers? Do they vaccinate everything? How much bluetongue do they see? What are mortality rates really like? Has flock/herd performance dipped? What is their advice to us?

 

[yellowbelly]

Fair comment, but then all the animals abroad could get over it in the winter and it would stop but it doesn’t seem to work like that.

There's lots of different ways it can carry over and no silver bullet to cure it.
Reading between the lines it's not going away anytime soon in Europe ( and probably not here now it's got a bit of a hold).
While it's rife in Europe, we're always going to be vulnerable when the weather conditions favour it.

 

[ringi]

it is the one where immunity kicks in after four weeks so it will be November before they have full immunity.

Some level of Immunity will start from a few days after 1st dose, it will build up with time, there is unlikely to be full immunity. (Even if it was possible to define "full immunity".) There is nothing magic about 4 weeks other then being the conventional time between doses when doing vaccination research.

 

[andybk]

there is such a reservoir of infection in holland , stock get hammered by infective midges so high death toll , where here its the odd midge bite so they get a lower dose and stock can prob overcome most issues (at the moment) , we are now going into autumn , and midge activity will get lower and lower as temps cool , , if your not in the zones i would wait and see what happens , had this been june ,july august i may have had different mindset,

 

[spin cycle]

surely if vaccination works then they wouldn't be having such trouble on the continent?

I think also the type of farm will have a say....drier land less than marshes for example

I suppose the outbreak is the reason our lamb prices are holding?

difficult to see how it won't become endemic....unless we get some cold?

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

The vaccines used so far in Europe are not very effective and have a number of issues.
I believe they are single dose with sheep and 2 doses for cattle.
They DO NOT prevent infection just reduce the severity over time.

Apparently there is a better vaccine that will be available next month that will give protection, the cost will probably be the deciding factor as to whether it will be taken up.

Many caveats though. It is extremely unlikely that there will be a resurgence of the virus in Europe next year as by far the majority of susceptible livestock will have immunity die to exposure to the virus or/and vaccination. The area covered in Europe is now huge and spreading away from the UK to the East.
This virus weakens as it ages and the viral load decreases and as such only animals under some stress such as Dairy cows will be affected seriously.
Yes it could over winter here in Bulls, Rams or possibly viraemic foetuses but it won't be spread by the Midges until the temperature is above 15'C continuously as the virus won't replicate in the Midge.

If I had a large heard of high yielding milkers then I would vaccinate with the new vaccine when it is available. I would also want to do it when most of the cows were dried off.
Otherwise I wouldn't vaccinate beef cattle or most sheep other than rams.

 

[easyram1]

When do the midges start up again in the spring ? Is it as soon as the weather warms up or do they have a life cycle where they are more prevalent in the Autumn.
I can’t understand how we had infected animals in this country last Autumn/ Winter but no clinical cases until August.

Very few infected midges last winter who obviously did not survive the winter

 

[andybk]

T
This virus weakens as it ages and the viral load decreases and as such only animals under some stress such as Dairy cows will be affected seriously.
Yes it could over winter here in Bulls, Rams or possibly viraemic foetuses but it won't be spread by the Midges until the temperature is above 15'C continuously as the virus won't replicate in the Midge.

If I had a large heard of high yielding milkers then I would vaccinate with the new vaccine when it is available. I would also want to do it when most of the cows were dried off.
Otherwise I wouldn't vaccinate beef cattle or most sheep other than rams.

I think the biggest issue is where it came from originally, plenty of articles point at chilled cut flower trade into holland from africa (where it comes from , how else does a african disease get to northern europe ?), midges hibernate till transport opened and flowers sorted . constant supply of new variants

The history of bluetongue and a current global overview - PubMed

Bluetongue (BT) was first reported more than 125 years ago when European breeds of sheep were introduced into southern Africa. BT viruses (BTV) have been identified in many tropical and temperate areas of the world. BT, the disease, is a phenomenon of ruminants in the temperate zones. There is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov