Boris........

[Muck Spreader]

Provide links to credible sources if you can. Stop deflecting.

It seems the first person with it, was admitted to hospital on November 17th with flu like symptoms, but it wasn't until 27th December that a Dr Zhang Jixian told the Chinese health authorities that it had been identified as a new and unknown virus. By that time at least 180 people had been admitted to hospital with the same symptoms. China alerted the WHO on 31st Dec about the new virus and the first confirmed death occurred on the 11th Jan.

 

[Old McDonald]

Sorry, the government haven't sent anyone to the front line without the relevant PPE exactly, as noone could predict this would be the global pandemic that it has turned out to be with any certainty in the early days / weeks, and of important note, they do not control the stocks of PPE in the hospitals etc.
That to my knowledge is undertaken by the NHS staff who are responsible for the stock control the bugets etc.. whereby one would have thought that they would have had insight into stocks and lead times of the goods they purchase, even down to possible clauses imposed on contracts for external stock levels as contingency planning.. Nothing to do with the Government directly...

Precisely!!! Very well put too.

I accept that it is a little over 20 years since I held a somewhat senior financial management position in the NHS, but I doubt that much will have changed considering I was frequently told "we have always done it this way". Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I believe it would be up to some manager (not forgetting the Board could become involved) in an NHS Trust to determine the amount of things like PPE that are in stock. I cannot see that any government would give instructions to all Trusts that they must carry X amount of stocks. It would defeat the whole purpose of having Trusts. Consequently the government cannot be blamed for individual trusts not having sufficient PPE.

I would not blame those responsible for controlling stock levels either. I am sure nobody envisaged the problem we now have until a few weeks into this year.

 

[Smith31]

Precisely!!! Very well put too.

I accept that it is a little over 20 years since I held a somewhat senior financial management position in the NHS, but I doubt that much will have changed considering I was frequently told "we have always done it this way". Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I believe it would be up to some manager (not forgetting the Board could become involved) in an NHS Trust to determine the amount of things like PPE that are in stock. I cannot see that any government would give instructions to all Trusts that they must carry X amount of stocks. It would defeat the whole purpose of having Trusts. Consequently the government cannot be blamed for individual trusts not having sufficient PPE.

I would not blame those responsible for controlling stock levels either. I am sure nobody envisaged the problem we now have until a few weeks into this year.

Give it a rest, we are a first world country. China alerted WHO on 31/13/2019 that the virus was prevalent.

We have a government with a multi billion pound budget, thousands of staff members, numerous departments and they still forgot to order enough ppe for mid March. That is incompetence.

Supermarkets have over 100,000 different items on their shelves they seem to manage fine.

 

[Still Farming]

 

[alex04w]

Supermarkets have over 100,000 different items on their shelves they seem to manage fine.

Hypocrite. Didn't the supermarkets run out of many items due to an unexpected upsurge in demand. Absolutely no different with the hospitals and PPE.

 

[Still Farming]

Hypocrite. Didn't the supermarkets run out of many items due to an unexpected upsurge in demand. Absolutely no different with the hospitals and PPE.

Wholesalers Bookers ,Makro owned by Tesco and calling shots with wholesale veg as they say ,customer dried up a limited supply?
What a load of crap.
More vulnerable, self isolating , older people need more than ever??
Just excuse to charge " retail" prices for veg and fruit allegedly??
NOT ON???

 

[Old McDonald]

Give it a rest, we are a first world country. China alerted WHO on 31/13/2019 that the virus was prevalent.

We have a government with a multi billion pound budget, thousands of staff members, numerous departments and they still forgot to order enough ppe for mid March. That is incompetence.

Supermarkets have over 100,000 different items on their shelves they seem to manage fine.

Give what a rest? I last posted on Sunday, and prior to that Thursday.

To be acusing someone of incompetence you have to be accusing the person responsible for ordering supplies for the hospital (or usualy group of hospitals), health centres, old folks' homes and GP surgeries. Who is responsible in your wife's practice? Blame them for incompetence if your wife does not have sufficient. Preferably of course, do not blame anybody.

I appreciate it is a traumatic time for all of us, but to blame "the government" is plain wrong.

According to reports I received, including posts on here, the supermarket did not "manage fine" in the UK.

 

[Smith31]

Hypocrite. Didn't the supermarkets run out of many items due to an unexpected upsurge in demand. Absolutely no different with the hospitals and PPE.

100,000 items being sold to 40 million panic buying consumers is a little different to several hundred different ppe products being used by a few hundred thousand NHS staff members.

Additionally the government had an unlimited budget, supermarkets only purchase goods they can make a profit on.

If you have any 3M filters for face masks there are still a few nurses requiring them on facebook.

 

[Smith31]

Give what a rest? I last posted on Sunday, and prior to that Thursday.

To be acusing someone of incompetence you have to be accusing the person responsible for ordering supplies for the hospital (or usualy group of hospitals), health centres, old folks' homes and GP surgeries. Who is responsible in your wife's practice? Blame them for incompetence if your wife does not have sufficient. Preferably of course, do not blame anybody.

I appreciate it is a traumatic time for all of us, but to blame "the government" is plain wrong.

According to reports I received, including posts on here, the supermarket did not "manage fine" in the UK.

I am not blaming anyone personally but poor planning in general. I like Boris and wish him well. However, we still have tourists arriving daily to our shores yet places like Saudi Arabia who we laugh at, have banned all pilgrims. We are an island it doesn't get easier with regards to disease control measures.

Just sick of members having a go at other members who dare question the government, especially personal insults being hurled at GUTH.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Interested why so many people like this post?

As said in another thread this virus has shown a lot about human nature, when tff members like the fact the PM has been put in intensive care.

Here he is speaking to my son, when he came to visit us to learn about agriculture. Im the fatty in loose fitting shirt.

Get well soon Boris.

View attachment 868942

Unless they've all changed it, nobody has 'liked' the post, but given it a sad emoji.

 

[Ukjay]

If abattoirs and dairy farmers have 2 months worth of ppe why didn't the NHS? Sheer incompetence that's why.

Hmm,

2 months supply for the above vs 2 months supply for the whole of the NHS....

I take it your mate down the pub can get you all the RM's next couple of days / weeks to supply the full NHS demand, as there is obviously no similar demand on PPE / RM's globally, and the same suppliers you think can provide supplies will obviously not be sending products abroad in a global economy!!

As an example to show how rediculous your assumption is, most of the spundonded materials used to make a lot of medical items was /is made overseas and shipped into the UK distribution channels having extremely long lead times.
The one UK supplier I was aware of that was reported as being a manufacturer in the UK of some of the materials / products required was already operating a 24/7 business, so how could they factor in the swift change in demand easily if they need different Polypropylene grades for the medical items as an example (gowns, dressings, bedding etc) over and above their current monitored demands?
Shall they just hold 100's of thousands of ££'s of resin in their Silos, all the trained operators on hold and paid just in case we have a global pandemic medical situation...

PP virgin resin was not manufactured in the UK the last time I had dealings with it, it came in from abroad, and lead times varied upon demand and grade required..

I admit, I'm out of that game area for some time, but I'm sure there is still not a UK refinery line to provide those Raw Materials, and unless the UK distributors were stockpiling for the What If, then there are lead times to contend with, and as the whole planet is facing this issue, supplies often get rationed....

And that is only one small part of the supply chain problem of supplies..

It's so bloody easy supplying all the required supplies isn't it

 

[linga]

Give it a rest, we are a first world country. China alerted WHO on 31/13/2019 that the virus was prevalent.

We have a government with a multi billion pound budget, thousands of staff members, numerous departments and they still forgot to order enough ppe for mid March. That is incompetence.

Supermarkets have over 100,000 different items on their shelves they seem to manage fine.

Well I cant find any flour on the shelves at the moment. They cant have ordered enough.

 

[Old McDonald]

I am not blaming anyone personally but poor planning in general.

Poor planning by....? You have been blaming "the government". On a thread about the Prime Minister being in intensive care.

As I posted above, it is a traumatic time for all of us, so perhaps time you gave it a rest?

 

[DrWazzock]

Is it reusable? During the Ebola crisis you saw it hung out on washing lines after they gave the wearer a good hosing down as he came off shift.

 

[Smith31]

Hmm,

2 months supply for the above vs 2 months supply for the whole of the NHS....

I take it your mate down the pub can get you all the RM's next couple of days / weeks to supply the full NHS demand, as there is obviously no similar demand on PPE / RM's globally, and the same suppliers you think can provide supplies will obviously not be sending products abroad in a global economy!!

As an example to show how rediculous your assumption is, most of the spundonded materials used to make a lot of medical items was /is made overseas and shipped into the UK distribution channels having extremely long lead times.
The one UK supplier I was aware of that was reported as being a manufacturer in the UK of some of the materials / products required was already operating a 24/7 business, so how could they factor in the swift change in demand easily if they need different Polypropylene grades for the medical items as an example (gowns, dressings, bedding etc) over and above their current monitored demands?
Shall they just hold 100's of thousands of ££'s of resin in their Silos, all the trained operators on hold and paid just in case we have a global pandemic medical situation...

PP virgin resin was not manufactured in the UK the last time I had dealings with it, it came in from abroad, and lead times varied upon demand and grade required..

I admit, I'm out of that game area for some time, but I'm sure there is still not a UK refinery line to provide those Raw Materials, and unless the UK distributors were stockpiling for the What If, then there are lead times to contend with, and as the whole planet is facing this issue, supplies often get rationed....

And that is only one small part of the supply chain problem of supplies..

It's so bloody easy supplying all the required supplies isn't it

1) We should have shut our borders in Mid Febuary for tourism, it is now going to cost us 65 million to bring back residents who took advantage of cheap holiday offers and are stranded abroad as a result of the virus.

2) Anyone returning from China, Iran and other high risk countries should have been placed in quarantine for 14 days.

3) Supermarket checkouts and bus driver cabs should have been covered with perspex screens 3 months ago, to prevent thousands of infections.

4) NHS stock levels and facilities should have been audited beginning from January, once WHO were alerted by China.

5) Non essential facilities closures where folk congregate such as restaurants, should have come in to place in January.

6) Why on earth are the Range selling scented candles, but farms are unable to purchase land drainage due to merchant closures?

All of the above are common sense, no different from farmers preparing their machinery several months early for harvest.

 

[Ukjay]

Give it a rest, we are a first world country. China alerted WHO on 31/13/2019 that the virus was prevalent.

We have a government with a multi billion pound budget, thousands of staff members, numerous departments and they still forgot to order enough ppe for mid March. That is incompetence.

Supermarkets have over 100,000 different items on their shelves they seem to manage fine.

May I ask if you actually know how the full supply chain works, as you appear to paint a rather simplistic view on how it can be expedited in such a situation?

Supermarkets did actually run out of numerous items due to the massive demand hikes during the panic buying, as their demand models would not have had such demand in the databases.
This then resulted in numerous various levels of outages of certain stocks across the country for several weeks until rationing came into affect and the new buyers model was evolved and suppliers could react for the easy to turn on materials.
White goods were out of stock in nearly all of the UK as people mass panic purchased freezers, bread makers etc to ram them to the gunnels with foods... So you are wrong that they coped just fine..

Towards your point of endless money supplies, sadly money doesn't get you out the sh!t when you are dealing on a global market with every country raising the demands for various raw materials... If stocks are not their, it takes time to get the wheels rolling and ships etc delivering.
Oh, and there is a major shortage of skilled LGV drivers to add to the problems..

My concern is that you may have the other extreme once the mad rush is over and there is overstock.
Will Farmers feel the blunt of this scenario - as the supermarkets look to offset their loss via their supply chain?

 

[Smith31]

May I ask if you actually know how the full supply chain works, as you appear to paint a rather simplistic view on how it can be expedited in such a situation?

Supermarkets did actually run out of numerous items due to the massive demand hikes during the panic buying, as their demand models would not have had such demand in the databases.
This then resulted in numerous various levels of outages of certain stocks across the country for several weeks until rationing came into affect and the new buyers model was evolved and suppliers could react for the easy to turn on materials.
White goods were out of stock in nearly all of the UK as people mass panic purchased freezers, bread makers etc to ram them to the gunnels with foods... So you are wrong that they coped just fine..

Towards your point of endless money supplies, sadly money doesn't get you out the sh!t when you are dealing on a global market with every country raising the demands for various raw materials... If stocks are not their, it takes time to get the wheels rolling and ships etc delivering.
Oh, and there is a major shortage of skilled LGV drivers to add to the problems..

My concern is that you may have the other extreme once the mad rush is over and there is overstock.
Will Farmers feel the blunt of this scenario - as the supermarkets look to offset their loss via their supply chain?

Our supermarkets are fully stocked and the outage only resulted for less then a week that was due to government incompetence and sending mixed signals, one minute we were to have a lock down the next we were not.

In the evening Boris announced a full lockdown, the following morning Gove went on the telly and told everyone that builders should continue to work, and merchants should remain open. One minute we were told to wear masks, the next we were told not too.

MP's were on TV each day talking to the media standing next to one another, yet telling the public to stay 2 meters apart.

The public lost faith and panic brought.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Chae1 Hope you have that picture in your office! What a fabulous one for the kids to remember in years to come. To wish anyone harm is awful. My wife calls her wee crackie but I do not wish her ill even though I do not like her policies!! Get well soon Boris.
WB

 

[Ukjay]

1) We should have shut our borders in Mid Febuary for tourism, it is now going to cost us 65 million to bring back residents who took advantage of cheap holiday offers and are stranded abroad as a result of the virus.

Ebola was also a serious issue with high mortality, and not many countries shut down borders / business for that did they.. I know we didn't lock down the UK as we have now with such a highly known contagious virus in circulation...
And people didn't stab each other for bloody toilet rolls did they....

2) Anyone returning from China, Iran and other high risk countries should have been placed in quarantine for 14 days.

Hindsight again...

3) Supermarket checkouts and bus driver cabs should have been covered with perspex screens 3 months ago, to prevent thousands of infections.

Hindsight again, as we never did it with the Ebola outbreak and people were travelling to and from the countries that had the outbreak..

4) NHS stock levels and facilities should have been audited beginning from January, once WHO were alerted by China.

Did they know it was going to be so bad, again: Hindsight is great...

5) No essential facilities closures where folk congregate such as restaurants, should have come in to place in January.

Again, the power of Hindsight.

6) Why on earth are the Range selling scented candles, but farms are unable to purchase land drainage due to merchant closures?

To be honest, other than the mass panic outages - I have managed to buy anything I need, so I'm surprised you can't get land drainage mail order?


I just checked and it appears I could still order with an on line distribution company for land drainage pipe, but due to Global Supply Issues there may be delays.... Go figure that hey...

 

[jendan]

Interested why so many people like this post?

As said in another thread this virus has shown a lot about human nature, when tff members like the fact the PM has been put in intensive care.

Here he is speaking to my son, when he came to visit us to learn about agriculture. Im the fatty in loose fitting shirt.

Get well soon Boris.

View attachment 868942

Cue comments like......."your wife looks gorgeous,you've got two lovely kids,you're punching well above your weight" .........and an impressive set of farm buildings. Nice photo!