The Colditz Story was not sufficiently elaborate for Ashy.
Brexit is destroying Britain
- Thread starter merino
- Start date
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
My wife chucks away well over half the imported calabrese that she buys. One day the penny might drop, but then again it might not.!
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Todays The Times. For those not familiar with The Times, Iain Martin was and is a staunch Brexit supporting columnist.
IAIN MARTIN
Wednesday June 08 2022, 9.00pm, The Times
Share
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
Save
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
The government doesn’t want to talk about it. Ministers are instead preparing hardline legislation designed to prop up Boris Johnson. It will override the Northern Ireland protocol and prove to some Tory MPs that Britain is a perpetual rule-breaker still at war with the European Union.
Labour certainly doesn’t want to talk about it. Sir Keir Starmer is desperate to avoid anything that suggests, especially to voters in the red wall, that he is cosying up to Brussels.
In time, though, we will need to talk about Brexit. In particular, we will have to address its problems, and how to fix them. For our own economic good, and to foster better relations with our nearest neighbours, the emphasis must shift from hostility and denial to improving trade and making exporting to the EU easier.
It is six years this month since Britain voted to leave and 18 months since the EU-UK Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA) came into effect. Even making allowances for the pandemic and the negative effect on trade, enough time has passed for a reasoned judgment.
The economist Simon French explained in our Business section this week in calm, empirical terms that the weakness in the pound, which he attributes to Brexit — down 9 per cent since June 2016 — and the low valuations for British companies have squeezed profits and made it more difficult to raise capital to invest.
Most visibly of all, British exporters continue to struggle with the bureaucracy involved in selling goods and services to the EU. The bill is passed on to consumers, adding to inflation. Dip into any trade publication and you’ll encounter tales of hardworking business people in despair about the complexities and costs. Problems with deliveries and paperwork abound in industries from widgets to wine.
Exports to the EU in 2021 were down almost 12 per cent on 2018. UK exports to the rest of the world fell by about half that percentage. In January the City broker IG said exports to the EU may fall by almost 8 per cent again by 2025.
The original solution promised by some Brexiteers was massive deregulation and open trade with the rest of the world to replace lost EU business and deliver a boom. This deregulation has not happened and is not going to happen, because this government is afraid of the impact on domestic industries such as agriculture. A successor government won’t deregulate much either and the voters don’t want it. This being the reality, Britain needs a better trading relationship with the EU.
There’s no use some of my fellow Brexiteers putting their fingers in their ears and humming Rule Britannia. To deny the downsides of Brexit on trade with the EU is to deny reality.
Incidentally, the same is true at the other end of the Brexit spectrum, where hardline Rejoiners wrap themselves in the EU flag and refuse to accept that any aspect of being out of the EU could possibly have brought advantages. The British responses on vaccines and then on Ukraine were better and carried out more confidently for us not being part of the EU club. Geopolitics is often about a state of mind. Increased national autonomy has been an advantage when helping President Zelensky. When EU leaders stayed up late recently wrangling with Viktor Orban, the pro-Putin populist poltroon, over a compromise on oil imports from Russia, it was terrific to know Britain was not involved.
Eighteen months in, then, the record is mixed. Accept that in a pragmatic fashion and the question quickly becomes what should Britain do in practical terms to improve the parts of the new arrangements that do not work. The answer according to the Tory MP Tobias Ellwood is for the UK to rejoin the EU single market. His suggestion last weekend struck me as deeply misguided. Neither main party is going to propose an arrangement that can be presented as the worst of all worlds, with Britain a rule-taker with little say over the rules. Instead, the focus should be on incrementally improving the deal that exists.
There are provisions for potential improvements in the TCA. Britain doesn’t want to sign up to all of the EU’s rules on food and public health, the sanitary and phytosanitary measures. Can’t some bespoke accommodation be devised to minimise friction at borders? The UK-EU joint committees and negotiating mechanisms are designed to facilitate a strengthening of ties, via low drama talks, perhaps even mini-deals in specific sectors, or joint programmes, if some trust can be developed on both sides.
Boris Johnson’s lawless antics on the Northern Ireland protocol take things in the opposite direction, towards more conflict. The government’s bill may cause a trade war, and if not that, more ill will.
Why we shouldn’t write off Boris Johnson just yet
TIMES2
Elf bars and me: I’m a vaping addict, so will I get gum disease?
SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORT
The shift to electric cars has begun — is it time to buy?
Of course the EU is annoying for Brexiteers. It has behaved badly on the protocol and got itself into a mess, posing as a defender of the Good Friday agreement yet refusing to help get Stormont up and running again. What’s needed is compromise all round.
I can well imagine the howls of outrage. Hardline Brexiteers love to shout “betrayal”. Rejoiners will accept nothing less than rejoining. In the middle are the rest of us, the growing third tribe, many millions who do not see this squabble in quasi-religious terms, like an updated version of the Reformation. As the referendum slips further away in the rear view mirror, the current electorate ages and Johnson becomes a distant memory, this is the direction of travel. Towards pragmatism and a better trading relationship.
Brexit
Europe
Ukraine
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/volodymyr-zelensky
IAIN MARTIN
Painful as it is, we need to talk about Brexit
Johnson and Starmer are both dodging the real issue: compromise with Brussels to improve our trade relationship
Iain MartinWednesday June 08 2022, 9.00pm, The Times
Share
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
Save
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/painful-as-it-is-we-need-to-talk-about-brexit-fj7bg2nql
The government doesn’t want to talk about it. Ministers are instead preparing hardline legislation designed to prop up Boris Johnson. It will override the Northern Ireland protocol and prove to some Tory MPs that Britain is a perpetual rule-breaker still at war with the European Union.
Labour certainly doesn’t want to talk about it. Sir Keir Starmer is desperate to avoid anything that suggests, especially to voters in the red wall, that he is cosying up to Brussels.
In time, though, we will need to talk about Brexit. In particular, we will have to address its problems, and how to fix them. For our own economic good, and to foster better relations with our nearest neighbours, the emphasis must shift from hostility and denial to improving trade and making exporting to the EU easier.
It is six years this month since Britain voted to leave and 18 months since the EU-UK Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA) came into effect. Even making allowances for the pandemic and the negative effect on trade, enough time has passed for a reasoned judgment.
The economist Simon French explained in our Business section this week in calm, empirical terms that the weakness in the pound, which he attributes to Brexit — down 9 per cent since June 2016 — and the low valuations for British companies have squeezed profits and made it more difficult to raise capital to invest.
ADVERTISEMENT
Most visibly of all, British exporters continue to struggle with the bureaucracy involved in selling goods and services to the EU. The bill is passed on to consumers, adding to inflation. Dip into any trade publication and you’ll encounter tales of hardworking business people in despair about the complexities and costs. Problems with deliveries and paperwork abound in industries from widgets to wine.
Exports to the EU in 2021 were down almost 12 per cent on 2018. UK exports to the rest of the world fell by about half that percentage. In January the City broker IG said exports to the EU may fall by almost 8 per cent again by 2025.
The original solution promised by some Brexiteers was massive deregulation and open trade with the rest of the world to replace lost EU business and deliver a boom. This deregulation has not happened and is not going to happen, because this government is afraid of the impact on domestic industries such as agriculture. A successor government won’t deregulate much either and the voters don’t want it. This being the reality, Britain needs a better trading relationship with the EU.
There’s no use some of my fellow Brexiteers putting their fingers in their ears and humming Rule Britannia. To deny the downsides of Brexit on trade with the EU is to deny reality.
SPONSORED
Incidentally, the same is true at the other end of the Brexit spectrum, where hardline Rejoiners wrap themselves in the EU flag and refuse to accept that any aspect of being out of the EU could possibly have brought advantages. The British responses on vaccines and then on Ukraine were better and carried out more confidently for us not being part of the EU club. Geopolitics is often about a state of mind. Increased national autonomy has been an advantage when helping President Zelensky. When EU leaders stayed up late recently wrangling with Viktor Orban, the pro-Putin populist poltroon, over a compromise on oil imports from Russia, it was terrific to know Britain was not involved.
Eighteen months in, then, the record is mixed. Accept that in a pragmatic fashion and the question quickly becomes what should Britain do in practical terms to improve the parts of the new arrangements that do not work. The answer according to the Tory MP Tobias Ellwood is for the UK to rejoin the EU single market. His suggestion last weekend struck me as deeply misguided. Neither main party is going to propose an arrangement that can be presented as the worst of all worlds, with Britain a rule-taker with little say over the rules. Instead, the focus should be on incrementally improving the deal that exists.
There are provisions for potential improvements in the TCA. Britain doesn’t want to sign up to all of the EU’s rules on food and public health, the sanitary and phytosanitary measures. Can’t some bespoke accommodation be devised to minimise friction at borders? The UK-EU joint committees and negotiating mechanisms are designed to facilitate a strengthening of ties, via low drama talks, perhaps even mini-deals in specific sectors, or joint programmes, if some trust can be developed on both sides.
Boris Johnson’s lawless antics on the Northern Ireland protocol take things in the opposite direction, towards more conflict. The government’s bill may cause a trade war, and if not that, more ill will.
Most read
COMMENTWhy we shouldn’t write off Boris Johnson just yet
TIMES2
Elf bars and me: I’m a vaping addict, so will I get gum disease?
SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORT
The shift to electric cars has begun — is it time to buy?
ADVERTISEMENT
Of course the EU is annoying for Brexiteers. It has behaved badly on the protocol and got itself into a mess, posing as a defender of the Good Friday agreement yet refusing to help get Stormont up and running again. What’s needed is compromise all round.
I can well imagine the howls of outrage. Hardline Brexiteers love to shout “betrayal”. Rejoiners will accept nothing less than rejoining. In the middle are the rest of us, the growing third tribe, many millions who do not see this squabble in quasi-religious terms, like an updated version of the Reformation. As the referendum slips further away in the rear view mirror, the current electorate ages and Johnson becomes a distant memory, this is the direction of travel. Towards pragmatism and a better trading relationship.
Brexit
Europe
Ukraine
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/volodymyr-zelensky
Last edited:
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Thats odd. Calabrese supplied from Spain during the winter season (November - May) generally has a much longer shelf life than UK produced as it is grown in a drier climate / weather.
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
Perhaps the penny has dropped for Mrs Arcobob and is still waiting to drop for her husband, who gives the impression he is a few pennies short of a full pound.
Last edited:
A lot of sense there, basically both sides need to sit down and sort it out.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Sellers need buyersbut who “needs” who the most?
You mean Boris needs to sit down. He prefers the unilateral approach unfortunately, as it helps keep the ERG dick hard, and keeps the plebs mind off partygate.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Perhaps if you read the article you might have something useful to say.
Trade needs to be beneficial to both sides, and if you are a company you need customers makes no difference what side of la Manche your on.yes.
but, I can’t help but think I need my Co op, more than they need me
The adults need to sit down and sort things out, politicians play to their voters instead of sorting out the issues.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
i am regularly laughed at for saying this, but it still strikes me, that since June 2016, the one adult from the uk that was trying to do exactly that was TM, who was nobbled by the current clown and his friends.
He, then went on to make such a pain in the butt of himself that “washing hands with you » comes to mind now
May was a disgrace, was out of her depth, when she hot elected leader I thought she was going to be good despite lots saying she was very poor in her previous roles, they were proved correct and as for the election campaign, she went AWOL, it's almost as if she wanted to lose it.i am regularly laughed at for saying this, but it still strikes me, that since June 2016, the one adult from the uk that was trying to do exactly that was TM, who was nobbled by the current clown and his friends.
He, then went on to make such a pain in the butt of himself that “washing hands with you » comes to mind now
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
anyone would be out if their depth, as what you want is impossible.
i am reminded about my own relationship with my Co op. So, I got a bit fed up with these limousines, so at a meeting with our Co op I said, I am thinking of selling the limmies and getting herefords. They said, well you can do as you please but we won’t be buying them. So I kept on with the limmies. Now, if I had changed over to Hereford’s, if I took the uk stance, I would be jumping up and down and shouting unfair unfair, because I wouldn’t be able to sell my animals
- Location
- Bay of Plenty NZ
Both sides have sat down and “sorted it out” they came to an agreement and now one side wants to renege on it.
There is a section that allows either side to act unilaterally if the NI protocol causes problems which quite plainly it is. No one is reneging on it, the EU side accept there are problems, as a side note we export through various EU ports and most arent causing problems, there is only one country where there seems to be issues, some companies are now rerouting trucks to avoid it.
Most companies seem to be able to deal with exporting ok especially the ones not going into France, as I've said before the dutch company hauling stuff out of my stepsons old firm now avoid France as is a meat company my mate hauls from, that is no surprise we all knew the french would play silly buggers. The main issue is the NI protocol , it was used as a political pawn and on time will reflect badly kn those who did. Even the great EU man Tony Blair has said it must be changedanyone would be out if their depth, as what you want is impossible.
i am reminded about my own relationship with my Co op. So, I got a bit fed up with these limousines, so at a meeting with our Co op I said, I am thinking of selling the limmies and getting herefords. They said, well you can do as you please but we won’t be buying them. So I kept on with the limmies. Now, if I had changed over to Hereford’s, if I took the uk stance, I would be jumping up and down and shouting unfair unfair, because I wouldn’t be able to sell my animals
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
my own experience is, it is now close to impossible to trade with the U.K.
I am now down to just a U.K. subsoiler, I guess I will buy a continental one this year