British friesian bulls

[Friesianfan]

Could you give an example just to make sure what I think you mean is what you actually mean? I'm assuming income per cow per year minus costs per cow per year? Then times that by 4 years which is the length of time I would want a cow to stay in the herd on average?

4 years?!

 

[som farmer]

Could you give an example just to make sure what I think you mean is what you actually mean? I'm assuming income per cow per year minus costs per cow per year? Then times that by 4 years which is the length of time I would want a cow to stay in the herd on average?

do you mean life span of 4 yrs, or 4 lactations ?
If you honestly cost out the rearing of your hfrs, put that against your milk out put, you can get a cost of replacements, expressed in a pence per litre cost. The lower that cost, the less time it takes for each cow entering your herd, to cover that cost, av is 2+ lactations, before she starts to earn money for you, you can always say, 'yes but xyz' you have to be honest with your figures, which include the pittance received for dairy bull calves, and those that sadly expire on route, which l said earlier, y/s are an expensive item, it's basically 4+ years, per hfr, before it gives you anything other than enjoyment, back. @Beef farmer , he has costed it out, and decided flying herd, (l think), but you also need to know those costs, being a 'newbie' this is a cost that can soon end up as a cash drain.

 

[Tsa115]

Am I right in thinking you bought josh?

Yes sold him on now though.

 

[farmboy]

Milk contract type ?

Liquid probably

 

[pappuller]

Liquid probably

So more of a bias toward litres than constituants

 

[farmboy]

So more of a bias toward litres than constituants

Yes. Talking simple system grazing/round bale silage and cake

 

[LTH]

Yes. Talking simple system grazing/round bale silage and cake

Same as us

 

[Jdunn55]

@Jdunn55

What is your forecast margin per cow/acre/whole farm? That will tell you how much you can afford to pay for cows.

Show your workings.
How long do you write a cow off over?

To make life simpler I've assumed that I'll feed bale silage all year round and only rent the sheds rather than work out rent fertiliser reseeding lime cost to clamp or bale etc so in theory the price should be less as grazed grass is much cheaper!
As @Friesianfan pointed out the type of cow I'm buying should last a lot longer than 4 lacerations but for budgeting I always go for the more sceptical side, I dont think I've missed anything?
Not sure about contractors or power and machinery as even my actual business plan was a bit of a guess if I'm honest, also the milk price is quite low imo, roddas usually pay north of 30ppl but again the sceptic in me!

 

[pappuller]

To make life simpler I've assumed that I'll feed bale silage all year round and only rent the sheds rather than work out rent fertiliser reseeding lime cost to clamp or bale etc so in theory the price should be less as grazed grass is much cheaper!
As @Friesianfan pointed out the type of cow I'm buying should last a lot longer than 4 lacerations but for budgeting I always go for the more sceptical side, I dont think I've missed anything?
Not sure about contractors or power and machinery as even my actual business plan was a bit of a guess if I'm honest, also the milk price is quite low imo, roddas usually pay north of 30ppl but again the sceptic in me!

Does your general labour figure mean you ?

 

[Jdunn55]

Not really, I might take a cut of that I suppose as I dont have anyone here doing those hours but depending on who you ask on any given day I'm either priceless or worthless

 

[betweenthelines]

Could you give an example just to make sure what I think you mean is what you actually mean? I'm assuming income per cow per year minus costs per cow per year? Then times that by 4 years which is the length of time I would want a cow to stay in the herd on average?

1. Never confuse income with profit.
2. If you budget/forecast £10k profit /year on 100 cows, that's £100/cow
3. Buy a cow for £x, sell for £y after 4 years (optimistic IMO) then the annual cost of that cow is x-y divided by 4. If this figure is less than £100, you're paying more than you can afford for the cow.

So if you buy a cow for £1500, and expect to sell her in 4 years for £1000, she's costing you £125/ year which is more than the profit you will make on her.

Not perfect I know, but better than "She looks nice, I'll keep bidding"

Also shows why it's often a good idea to buy older cows as even though they might only last 2 years, the "cost" per year is a lot less.

 

[Sid]

1. Never confuse income with profit.
2. If you budget/forecast £10k profit /year on 100 cows, that's £100/cow
3. Buy a cow for £x, sell for £y after 4 years (optimistic IMO) then the annual cost of that cow is x-y divided by 4. If this figure is less than £100, you're paying more than you can afford for the cow.

So if you buy a cow for £1500, and expect to sell her in 4 years for £1000, she's costing you £125/ year which is more than the profit you will make on her.

Not perfect I know, but better than "She looks nice, I'll keep bidding"

Also shows why it's often a good idea to buy older cows as even though they might only last 2 years, the "cost" per year is a lot less.

Good starting point I agree. I rented some cows once upon a time, £7.50/month IIRC.

You think an old cows running cost will be lower than a younger cow?

 

[som farmer]

Good starting point I agree. I rented some cows once upon a time, £7.50/month IIRC.

You think an old cows running cost will be lower than a younger cow?

one of the biggest differences now being seen, with xbreds and frs, is the time they are with you, in lactations, they last, we have cows up to 12th. Many will say the hols give as much milk, in 2 lactations, than a fr in 4+, strictly speaking that is probably near the mark, but when you start putting in higher constituent milk value, extra beef calves, if using sexed, and lower running costs, the gap widens towards your xb ff. Going back to 'takes 2 lacs to cover it's cost' which is an av figure, produced by the 'experts', that immediately opens up a future profit advantage, if your cows last 6+ lacs.
With the higher average age of your herd is fine, as sid asks, the running costs of older cows, is fine, but problems in old age, just like us, can take a more severe hit, a 10th calver would compare with 80/90 yr old people, that's a guess, but explains the idea.
On cow purchase, you could have bought some nice cows/hfrs, either fresh or i/c, fr or ayr types, for not to dear a price, esp some i/c hfrs, for an av price £1000, at exeter today, y/s looked very cheap, compared to rearing costs.

 

[Beef farmer]

do you mean life span of 4 yrs, or 4 lactations ?
If you honestly cost out the rearing of your hfrs, put that against your milk out put, you can get a cost of replacements, expressed in a pence per litre cost. The lower that cost, the less time it takes for each cow entering your herd, to cover that cost, av is 2+ lactations, before she starts to earn money for you, you can always say, 'yes but xyz' you have to be honest with your figures, which include the pittance received for dairy bull calves, and those that sadly expire on route, which l said earlier, y/s are an expensive item, it's basically 4+ years, per hfr, before it gives you anything other than enjoyment, back. @Beef farmer , he has costed it out, and decided flying herd, (l think), but you also need to know those costs, being a 'newbie' this is a cost that can soon end up as a cash drain.

one of the biggest differences now being seen, with xbreds and frs, is the time they are with you, in lactations, they last, we have cows up to 12th. Many will say the hols give as much milk, in 2 lactations, than a fr in 4+, strictly speaking that is probably near the mark, but when you start putting in higher constituent milk value, extra beef calves, if using sexed, and lower running costs, the gap widens towards your xb ff. Going back to 'takes 2 lacs to cover it's cost' which is an av figure, produced by the 'experts', that immediately opens up a future profit advantage, if your cows last 6+ lacs.
With the higher average age of your herd is fine, as sid asks, the running costs of older cows, is fine, but problems in old age, just like us, can take a more severe hit, a 10th calver would compare with 80/90 yr old people, that's a guess, but explains the idea.
On cow purchase, you could have bought some nice cows/hfrs, either fresh or i/c, fr or ayr types, for not to dear a price, esp some i/c hfrs, for an av price £1000, at exeter today, y/s looked very cheap, compared to rearing costs.

In calf for when?

 

[Jdunn55]

1. Never confuse income with profit.
2. If you budget/forecast £10k profit /year on 100 cows, that's £100/cow
3. Buy a cow for £x, sell for £y after 4 years (optimistic IMO) then the annual cost of that cow is x-y divided by 4. If this figure is less than £100, you're paying more than you can afford for the cow.

So if you buy a cow for £1500, and expect to sell her in 4 years for £1000, she's costing you £125/ year which is more than the profit you will make on her.

Not perfect I know, but better than "She looks nice, I'll keep bidding"

Also shows why it's often a good idea to buy older cows as even though they might only last 2 years, the "cost" per year is a lot less.

I just called it profit because i wasn't really sure what else to call it to make it clear what it is as such, i suppose that would be income after variable expenses? The second part i dont really understand? by the numbers i put up, it would be £425 per cow per year, which for 100 cows is then £42,500 before fixed costs and buying replacements (I think, getting myself confused now!)
Then for the third part, using my number above, if i bought a cow, for say £1,500 and sold her fat in 4 years time for £600 she would be costing me £150 which means shes earning me £275 a year (£425-£150)? is that right?

 

[LTH]

4 in calf pedigree Friesian heifers averaged just over 1500 topped at just over 1600 at leek on tuesday due to limmy in June. Whoever got them will have done alright providing nothing goes wrong as you’ve only got to keep them a month and you’ve got a 300 to 400 pound calf out of it as well

 

[som farmer]

In calf for when?

july aug sep, later calvers were the dearest, they wouldn't have been in the best of condition, but improvers, watching on marteye, isn't the same as real eye, they may have been worse than they looked, sure as hell they didn't leave a profit, if we had been there, might have made a bit more. You simply have to be 'on site' at the same time as the chances come, not always possible.

 

[Cowmansam]

4 in calf pedigree Friesian heifers averaged just over 1500 topped at just over 1600 at leek on tuesday due to limmy in June. Whoever got them will have done alright providing nothing goes wrong as you’ve only got to keep them a month and you’ve got a 300 to 400 pound calf out of it as well

Heifers in calf to limmy I’ve visions of two nerve damage one ceaser one down never to get up

 

[som farmer]

l would simply not bid, whatever the price, for hfrs i/c to continentals, we had 1 disaster this year in a hfr not calving to jersey, how much has that cost ? Actual calving, was followed by prolapse, so vet, trapped a nerve badly, so will never be a milker, in a barn, with 1 calf, and dare not turn her out, she walks 'funny', RSPCA if she was in a field, even though she is ok, that walk....! We like them to calve easily and quickly, jersey great, dexter might be better, if they could reach, thinking on that, a dexter calf probably worth more than a jer bull calf !

 

[Cowmansam]

Dexter have fairly square shoulders we used to keep pures at home and had to calve about half of em