Ca:Mg Ratio

[Andrew_Ni]

Just seeking a few tips on how to try and balance our soils. (If it even is possible).

Gary zimmer made a comment on a video that some farms are naturally high in certain minerals/nutrients and you’ll never live long enough to be able to alter them.

we’ve high magnesium and quite low calcium and trying to get as close to 65/68Ca - 12/15Mg.

I’d imagine starting a heavy liming program is step 1.

I’ve been told that CAN contains magnesium but it’s not declared and as it’s our main nitrogen source currently, could we have been adding to the problem?

 

[ollie989898]

I've said similar for a long time. Despite the protestations of the Albrecht brigade you cannot 'balance' any soil- it is what nature intended it to be. You can meddle with things slightly by changing the pH. This changes the availability of the nutrients available to plants and gives them a better chance at finding what they need. But if you've got soils rocket high in iron, molybdenum or naturally lacking in manganese, then you're always going to be fighting an uphill battle because the board isn't tilted in the favour of your crop plants.

There is pish all calcium in CAN. It does not contribute anything to soil pH, I don't care what any business-card dealing consultant has said.

It is worth noting that some soils are highly acidic (or alkaline) and care must be taken with liming as you would need to revise what an optimum pH actually may be because it may be uneconomic or deleterious to soil chemistry if you were to apply lime in big quantities in the belief you were 'correcting' the soil.

Clay soils tend to be high in magnesium but then I've known clay soils to have a pretty handy pH and others not many minutes down the road of similar clay content and yet they tend to sit acid. Much depends on the mineral content of the soil and what underlying geology they have.

 

[Kevtherev]

@Cab-over Pete

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Yes mate, ‘s up?

I’m no expert on all this so, learning by experience, I’ll keep out of it for fear of being shouted at!!!

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

Just seeking a few tips on how to try and balance our soils. (If it even is possible).

Gary zimmer made a comment on a video that some farms are naturally high in certain minerals/nutrients and you’ll never live long enough to be able to alter them.

we’ve high magnesium and quite low calcium and trying to get as close to 65/68Ca - 12/15Mg.

I’d imagine starting a heavy liming program is step 1.

I’ve been told that CAN contains magnesium but it’s not declared and as it’s our main nitrogen source currently, could we have been adding to the problem?

The product for balancing soils has always been gypsum. If you choose to try to correct an imbalance do not use ag lime.

 

[livestock 1]

Calcium lime?

 

[crashbox]

Just seeking a few tips on how to try and balance our soils. (If it even is possible).

Gary zimmer made a comment on a video that some farms are naturally high in certain minerals/nutrients and you’ll never live long enough to be able to alter them.

we’ve high magnesium and quite low calcium and trying to get as close to 65/68Ca - 12/15Mg.

I’d imagine starting a heavy liming program is step 1.

I’ve been told that CAN contains magnesium but it’s not declared and as it’s our main nitrogen source currently, could we have been adding to the problem?

Do you actually have a problem, and if so, what? Low yields?

Maybe try one field, or better, half of a couple of fields, and monitor results before doing the whole farm.

 

[Wisconsonian]

Balancing calcium and magnesium for better crop yields is outside of the mainstream research. Any information you find will be short on evidence and sketchy in my opinion. The academic opinion is Ca balance does not matter in the vast majority of soils for the vast majority of crops.

 

[Spud]

You need a broad spectrum soil test to start with. No point assuming lime is needed, because if the pH is already high, you'll create more problems.

Where are your p&k levels?

 

[4R Man]

If you have high Mg levels Gypsum is what you need to help offset them -doesn't change pH but provides a source of Ca ions which help to free up "locked" nutrients in the soil, additionally also assists with soil structure

 

[Andrew_Ni]

As far as I can find , bulk gypsum isn’t available in Northern Ireland and it wouldn’t be cost effective to bring it over from GB. Lime seems to be the best option. Increase pH and provide a source of calcium.

 

[SilliamWhale]

How many tests have you done and what is your ca/mg ratio? And what is your pH

 

[Fenwick]

Just seeking a few tips on how to try and balance our soils. (If it even is possible).

Gary zimmer made a comment on a video that some farms are naturally high in certain minerals/nutrients and you’ll never live long enough to be able to alter them.

we’ve high magnesium and quite low calcium and trying to get as close to 65/68Ca - 12/15Mg.

I’d imagine starting a heavy liming program is step 1.

I’ve been told that CAN contains magnesium but it’s not declared and as it’s our main nitrogen source currently, could we have been adding to the problem?

If you are interested in balancing soils, then you would need to do an Albrecht test. I think there are few options on this, maybe 1 lab in the U.K. another in Finland? and of course Kinsey's lab in the U.S.

I've always thought Zimmer was an interesting fellow.

I've said similar for a long time. Despite the protestations of the Albrecht brigade you cannot 'balance' any soil- it is what nature intended it to be. You can meddle with things slightly by changing the pH. This changes the availability of the nutrients available to plants and gives them a better chance at finding what they need. But if you've got soils rocket high in iron, molybdenum or naturally lacking in manganese, then you're always going to be fighting an uphill battle because the board isn't tilted in the favour of your crop plants.

There is pish all calcium in CAN. It does not contribute anything to soil pH, I don't care what any business-card dealing consultant has said.

It is worth noting that some soils are highly acidic (or alkaline) and care must be taken with liming as you would need to revise what an optimum pH actually may be because it may be uneconomic or deleterious to soil chemistry if you were to apply lime in big quantities in the belief you were 'correcting' the soil.

Clay soils tend to be high in magnesium but then I've known clay soils to have a pretty handy pH and others not many minutes down the road of similar clay content and yet they tend to sit acid. Much depends on the mineral content of the soil and what underlying geology they have.

I don't think that nature intends soils to be anything. And I don't think we have no control over them either. It is simple cause and effect.

In my part of the world the soils were historically granite based and acidic. People grew buckwheat as a staple as wheat wouldnt grow. Now it is the powerhouse of food prodution in the country. 10t/Ha wheat and 2 cows to the hectare.

Soil changes through inputs and management.

I also don't worry too much about PH.

The product for balancing soils has always been gypsum. If you choose to try to correct an imbalance do not use ag lime.

That depends on the imbalance! It is not recommended on applying gypsum to soils with less than 60% Calcium on base saturation.

 

[ollie989898]

If you are interested in balancing soils, then you would need to do an Albrecht test. I think there are few options on this, maybe 1 lab in the U.K. another in Finland? and of course Kinsey's lab in the U.S.

I've always thought Zimmer was an interesting fellow.



I don't think that nature intends soils to be anything. And I don't think we have no control over them either. It is simple cause and effect.

In my part of the world the soils were historically granite based and acidic. People grew buckwheat as a staple as wheat wouldnt grow. Now it is the powerhouse of food prodution in the country. 100t/Ha wheat and 2 cows to the hectare.

Soil changes through inputs and management.

I also don't worry too much about PH.



That depends on the imbalance! It is not recommended on applying gypsum to soils with less than 60% Calcium on base saturation.

What have you done to get dirt to produce wheat whereas before it grew nothing?

The same as anyone else- provided nutrients at levels that permit the crop to obtain them.

You cannot 'balance' soils- can't be done. They are as nature intended and based on their underlying geology.

 

[Clive]

What have you done to get dirt to produce wheat whereas before it grew nothing?

The same as anyone else- provided nutrients at levels that permit the crop to obtain them.

You cannot 'balance' soils- can't be done. They are as nature intended and based on their underlying geology.

i agree. ……. with the caveat that if you can spend unlimited £’s then anything is possible

the champagne vineyards are balanced BUT money is no object - if needed they will bring in 100 truck loads an acre !!

 

[crashbox]

i agree. ……. with the caveat that if you can spend unlimited £’s then anything is possible

the champagne vineyards are balanced BUT money is no object - if needed they will bring in 100 truck loads an acre !!

I heard £1million/acre!

Climate change must be a major investment risk to consider...

 

[PSQ]

If your soil is high in Mg, it's probably because your local lime quarry is mag lime, and thats probably what's been used exclusively for the last 150 years hence the high Mg index.

If this is the case, then switch to Ca lime if it's available, but only apply it to correct a pH issue, where the Ca will be a secondary but important benefit.
Gypsum would be a better product as it can be spread on the worst areas to improve texture on clays with very high Mg, but you'd need to find a plasterboard recycler with a clean sample; it's usually available FoC, to save them the landfill tax.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

If your soil is high in Mg, it's probably because your local lime quarry is mag lime, and thats probably what's been used exclusively for the last 150 years hence the high Mg index.

If this is the case, then switch to Ca lime if it's available, but only apply it to correct a pH issue, where the Ca will be a secondary but important benefit.
Gypsum would be a better product as it can be spread on the worst areas to improve texture on clays with very high Mg, but you'd need to find a plasterboard recycler with a clean sample; it's usually available FoC, to save them the landfill tax.

There are plenty of soils that are just naturally high in Mg and they will never have received an application of Mg lime.

 

[ollie989898]

If your soil is high in Mg, it's probably because your local lime quarry is mag lime, and thats probably what's been used exclusively for the last 150 years hence the high Mg index.

If this is the case, then switch to Ca lime if it's available, but only apply it to correct a pH issue, where the Ca will be a secondary but important benefit.
Gypsum would be a better product as it can be spread on the worst areas to improve texture on clays with very high Mg, but you'd need to find a plasterboard recycler with a clean sample; it's usually available FoC, to save them the landfill tax.

High magnesium is very common in soils with a significant clay content.

 

[Fenwick]

What have you done to get dirt to produce wheat whereas before it grew nothing?

The same as anyone else- provided nutrients at levels that permit the crop to obtain them.

You cannot 'balance' soils- can't be done. They are as nature intended and based on their underlying geology.

It can bé done and is being done for thé résults in a soil test at least. whether you believe it is of any use is another question.

my personnel opinion is that there is a bit more to farming than applying nutrients.

the champagne vineyards are balanced BUT money is no object - if needed they will bring in 100 truck loads an acre !!

I heard £1million/acre!

Climate change must be a major investment risk to consider...

I have a friend with a vineyard over there. Last time she bought some it was at 1 700 000€/Ha.

it's really difficult for small producers liké her. so I would urge people to consider twice before buying a bottle of Moet or Mumm.