Can a housed cow system be "regenerative"?

[som farmer]

So regenerative livestock farming is nothing more than soil fertility ? why not call it soil fertility improvement farming then I would understand

why not just call it, sensible farming ?

because that is really what it is, and not exploiting the farm, or farm based on a principal of rotation, that maintained fertility, and soil flora and fauna. And not the widescale use of fert and spray, which are a newcomer to farming, in the last 80 yrs.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

well not really as we seem to be getting a lot of different answers and it was a genuine question I don't know what it is ?
Holistic livestock farming yep I can get that but regenerative just makes me think of Dr Who

Regenerative has largely been bent into meaning something

What if regenerative didn't mean anything other than having certain qualities that time proved works, like evolution?
We can say farming has evolved, which it has, but what's clear is that it isn't working for all participants in the way that it once did.

Using regenerative as a weaponised term to "make bad" conventions is just making something bad or wrong in order to look better or righter, and completely mechanistic and ego-driven. And that is about as conventional as can be

 

[Scholsey]

What ever the actual definition of ‘regen’ is, if carbon footprint is anything to go by, on the carbon audit bench marking our milk buyer did, the high yield, housed 365 herds had by far the lowest carbon/litre.

If we are going to be made to feed these methane reducing additives to cows going foward how is your 3-4000 litre all off grass grazer going to get it into the cows?

 

[sjt01]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

Now I further understand why we got pushed down to Commended last year. Mind you, the award winner also owned the awards venue!
CLIMATE POSITIVE AGRICULTURE AWARD

Sponsored by Mole Valley Farmers

Winner – Grosvenor Farms

Highly Commended – Beechwood Farms Ltd, Andrew Rees

Commended – JF Temple & Son, Copys Green Farm, Stephen & Catherine Temple

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What ever the actual definition of ‘regen’ is, if carbon footprint is anything to go by, on the carbon audit bench marking our milk buyer did, the high yield, housed 365 herds had by far the lowest carbon/litre.

If we are going to be made to feed these methane reducing additives to cows going foward how is your 3-4000 litre all off grass grazer going to get it into the cows?

What if there never will be an "is" when it comes to regenerative? Things could just be more or less and we could all accept we just do what makes good money and own it like a champ

 

[Henarar]

What ever the actual definition of ‘regen’ is, if carbon footprint is anything to go by, on the carbon audit bench marking our milk buyer did, the high yield, housed 365 herds had by far the lowest carbon/litre.

If we are going to be made to feed these methane reducing additives to cows going foward how is your 3-4000 litre all off grass grazer going to get it into the cows?

A cow in a field happy making milk has no carbon footprint any more than a bison would years ago.
its what we do that has the carbon footprint

hopefully they won't get them in to their cows any more than I will

 

[crashbox]

What ever the actual definition of ‘regen’ is, if carbon footprint is anything to go by, on the carbon audit bench marking our milk buyer did, the high yield, housed 365 herds had by far the lowest carbon/litre.

If we are going to be made to feed these methane reducing additives to cows going foward how is your 3-4000 litre all off grass grazer going to get it into the cows?

Regenerative is not the same as "low carbon".

Do any of the carbon calculations account for the embodied carbon contribution of the requisite concrete, steel and machinery? I know my Arla carbon footprint doesn't ask me to quantify that.

 

[More to life]

Regenerative is not the same as "low carbon".

View attachment 1179372

Do any of the carbon calculations account for the embodied carbon contribution of the requisite concrete, steel and machinery? I know my Arla carbon footprint doesn't ask me to quantify that.

It's an endless rabbit hole why we can't accept that digging or pumping carbon out of the ground is bad. Is there anything else to say or see.

 

[Henarar]

Some have to have a set of rules for everything to tie themselves up.
some have to put a number on everything to mark themselves down.
stand back and see it all.

 

[Scholsey]

A cow in a field happy making milk has no carbon footprint any more than a bison would years ago.
its what we do that has the carbon footprint

hopefully they won't get them in to their cows any more than I will

You think you will have a choice? I can guarantee there will be a stand at grosvener farms today and a talk on how the trials etc are going.

Some big multi national company with whispers in politician ears will buy up the patent/license whatever and that additive will become a license to keep ruminants.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Definitely, wo0d chips for flooring like they dio in clear igloos, 2 to 3 years then spread, excellent fertiliser.

Ant...

 

[puppet]

A fully housed dairy can import a lot less feed and straw than a lot of what would be regarded as conventional systems they just grow it themselves.

With regards to fert if they have the storage they will make far more efficient use of the slurry by applying accurately and at the right time compared to a lot of systems that have to apply when the store is full.

With my grazing system I am also coming to realise that the efficiency of being able to place the correct feed in front of a cow 365 days a year and the extra output that will create will more than offset the additional carbon footprint of making that silage.

My cows have lost 4 litres a cow at the moment grazing this year compared to last because the spring and grass quality is so rubbish their carbon footprint output is the same so the footprint has risen considerably.

I agree with a lot of what you are doing but I could call that efficient rather than regenerative. None of the big dairies round here (over 1000 cows) grow anything except grass. All cereal and straw hauled from at least 100 miles away or further. Of course very high output too.
I would argue that although the cows have lost litres their carbon footprint has reduced by grazing rather than eating silage. It also sounds like intake is down too.
The regenerative concept was started to overcome the damage done by constant cropping and depletion of soil carbon. We are just moving back to what I remember as traditional mixed farming and crop rotations.

 

[Nathan818]

A cow in a field happy making milk has no carbon footprint any more than a bison would years ago.
its what we do that has the carbon footprint

hopefully they won't get them in to their cows any more than I will

Ahh yes, it's only things we do which have a carbon footprint. It's a good job we haven't been interfering with nature to feed ourselves since the agricultural revolution.

A cow can be perfectly happy in a field munching grass, but as soon as you keep them to extract milk or meat from that system, you are a farmer. And what you produce has a carbon footprint, be it negative, positive or a perfect balance.

 

[Henarar]

Ahh yes, it's only things we do which have a carbon footprint. It's a good job we haven't been interfering with nature to feed ourselves since the agricultural revolution.

odd how its only since the industrial revolution that cows decided to heat the world up, odd choice and convenient timing

 

[Henarar]

You think you will have a choice? I can guarantee there will be a stand at grosvener farms today and a talk on how the trials etc are going.

Some big multi national company with whispers in politician ears will buy up the patent/license whatever and that additive will become a license to keep ruminants.

As said, how ?
if farmers had any sense they would tell them on mass to shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[Farmer_1994]

One could argue that the dairy itself is not regenerative. But it is a tool that they use to REGENERATE the land. Pretty much as long as you are making continual improvement and it’s measurable you can be regenaritive. I think many “conventional” farms use a lot of regenerative practices as it is. It’s just a new buzz word on something that truthfully is very subjective, because it’s about your own context that you farm in not the context of the general masses or even the neighbour next door. Once you put rules in place the whole job becomes prescriptive and not adaptive, and let’s be honest who really wants more rules and red tape.

 

[Scholsey]

As said, how ?
if farmers had any sense they would tell them on mass to shove it where the sun don't

Red tractor/supermarkets/retailers require it?

Some supermarkets have already jumped on the bandwagon and said they don’t want chicken/eggs produced in the wye catchment and there are multiple rivers in a far worse state than the wye.

RSPCA freedom foods won’t assure any chicken sites that have participated in the badger cull! The pressure from above on agriculture is becoming suffocating!

 

[frederick]

Red tractor/supermarkets/retailers require it?

Some supermarkets have already jumped on the bandwagon and said they don’t want chicken/eggs produced in the wye catchment and there are multiple rivers in a far worse state than the wye.

RSPCA freedom foods won’t assure any chicken sites that have participated in the badger cull! The pressure from above on agriculture is becoming suffocating!

Will they assure a dairy farm that's participated in the badger cull.

 

[Scholsey]

Will they assure a dairy farm that's participated in the badger cull.

Don’t think rspca freedom foods is associated with dairy?

 

[Scholsey]

Don’t think rspca freedom foods is associated with dairy?

Says they are on their website but haven’t heard of anyone having RSPCA freedom food audits? I’ve only heard about it via poultry guys so unsure on dairy/beef etc but how f***ed is that considering it’s a government scheme!