Can a housed cow system be "regenerative"?

[Will Blackburn]

Don’t think rspca freedom foods is associated with dairy?

I though m and s dairy had a connection?

 

[som farmer]

Says they are on their website but haven’t heard of anyone having RSPCA freedom food audits? I’ve only heard about it via poultry guys so unsure on dairy/beef etc but how f***ed is that considering it’s a government scheme!

the price of food is already to low, farmers have to make a living, for many its a tight line.

then the guv, in their infinite wisdom, design a subsidy package, that actually promotes a reduction in food production, and its not only the UK, but the EU have similar policies, both think they can import as much as they need.

our dearly unbeloved NFU, then go and stick their nose in, bleating about food security, and how important it is to the country, and the guv are listening, for a change, and start tweaking things about, putting caps on parts etc.

why the NFU cannot understand basic economics, or are just lap dogs of the guv, or even don't represent the average farmer, is hard to believe.

the simple correct view of economics, is supply versus demand, it doesn't matter whether you are producing food, nuts and bolts, cars, or whatever you can think off, the rule is exactly the same, if something isn't meeting demand, the price goes price goes up, and vice versus. There is one proviso, unless politicians interfere.

so guv devises a scheme, that reduces production, which in turn would increase prices, which we all desperately need, and the NFU starts telling them to stop, food security etc, its bad for the nation etc, etc.

well, food security has got nothing to do with farmers, its the guvs duty. And they have indicated they couldn't care less, about farming, the environment is more important. So why should we feel, we have a duty to feed the nation ? we don't, if people respected us, slightly different, but they don't, so feck off.

and the NFU seem intent on stopping the best chance, we have had in decades, to get meaningful price increases. If you don't believe that, tell me why lamb and beef are on record prices, and its not the benevolence of retailers.

as for importing half + of our food, good luck, read the news, every day the world is becoming more unstable, and the more we need to import, the more it becomes a sellers mkt.

and the dearer food becomes, the assurance schemes become of less importance for the retailers

 

[kiwi pom]

One could argue that the dairy itself is not regenerative. But it is a tool that they use to REGENERATE the land. Pretty much as long as you are making continual improvement and it’s measurable you can be regenaritive. I think many “conventional” farms use a lot of regenerative practices as it is. It’s just a new buzz word on something that truthfully is very subjective, because it’s about your own context that you farm in not the context of the general masses or even the neighbour next door. Once you put rules in place the whole job becomes prescriptive and not adaptive, and let’s be honest who really wants more rules and red tape.

I think regenerative is just a new way of saying, more efficient and less polluting.
Makes people think something different is being done and businesses use it as a way to gain more market share.
Farmers will probably always be here, other businesses come and go, they're just trying to survive so they jump on the latest buzz words.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Some have to have a set of rules for everything to tie themselves up.
some have to put a number on everything to mark themselves down.
stand back and see it all.

Some are happy with none of that and continually regenerate their possibility, despite those around them saying it's impossible or unlikely

Redefining what's possible for you is empowering and attractive and engaging.

It also snaps us out of living in the past and future, has us be present

Good luck finding that in a seed bag or soil core

 

[Enry]

How can a grazing cow's carbon footprint rise ? I wouldn't think it had one

methane - if she produces less milk off same total feed the carbon footprint of the milk goes up

 

[Henarar]

methane - if she produces less milk off same total feed the carbon footprint of the milk goes up

Wouldnt matter if she produced no milk at all,
Do you think she goes off down the mine to get her methane.
Methane smethane all I hear about is fecking methane.

 

[Wesley]

Wouldnt matter if she produced no milk at all,
Do you think she goes off down the mine to get her methane.
Methane smethane all I hear about is fecking methane.

Its measured per litre of milk. So unless you took your milking stool & bucket out to the field she’s in then they’ll be something to go against her. Even if you disregard the methane there’s still electric, diesel, fertiliser etc. As soon as humans have any involvement then there will be something.

 

[DaveGrohl]

A fully housed dairy can import a lot less feed and straw than a lot of what would be regarded as conventional systems they just grow it themselves.

With regards to fert if they have the storage they will make far more efficient use of the slurry by applying accurately and at the right time compared to a lot of systems that have to apply when the store is full.

With my grazing system I am also coming to realise that the efficiency of being able to place the correct feed in front of a cow 365 days a year and the extra output that will create will more than offset the additional carbon footprint of making that silage.

My cows have lost 4 litres a cow at the moment grazing this year compared to last because the spring and grass quality is so rubbish their carbon footprint output is the same so the footprint has risen considerably.

But last year you were overperforming in comparison. Snapshots are meaningless. Utterly. But then that’s the whole carbon game.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I must admit I raised my eyebrows when I saw where it was being held…probably the biggest single site milk producer in the UK? Fully housed 3x milked, massive yields, no doubt doing a very very good job of running an intensive high output system…but regenerative?. I suspect RABDF are more interested in having a profitable even under whatever banner, and there will be plenty of supplier trade stands at Grosvenor, compared to holding events at lower profile, lower input farms. I suppose the term Regenerative is so loose it lends itself to all kinds of abuse

But does if run at a profit and can it pay its way???, ie not reliant on exturnal funding to keep afloat?

 

[Enry]

But does if run at a profit and can it pay its way???, ie not reliant on exturnal funding to keep afloat?

I suspect they make a lot of money...very well run, very high output, good milk price etc.

 

[Hesstondriver]

My question is . What is it that is trying to be regenerated??
soil
Carbon
Happy cows
Ammonia

imo anything that involves the word regenerative. Means robbing Peter to pay Paul

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I suspect they make a lot of money...very well run, very high output, good milk price etc.

Quite often such enterprises in business are actually sailing a lot closer to the wind, and many an agricultural operation that has been suspected of being economic or financially viable based on image has been anything but.
High output even with high payout is no guarantee for profitability.
That's not to say that applies to this particular situation.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

My question is . What is it that is trying to be regenerated??
soil
Carbon
Happy cows
Ammonia

imo anything that involves the word regenerative. Means robbing Peter to pay Paul

I'm Ok with the last paragraph....
I believe what is being "regenerated" is money, ie spend money to receive more money.

 

[Enry]

Quite often such enterprises in business are actually sailing a lot closer to the wind, and many an agricultural operation that has been suspected of being economic or financially viable based on image has been anything but.
High output even with high payout is no guarantee for profitability.
That's not to say that applies to this particular situation.

Grosvenor Farms av profit over last 4 years...£1.25m/year.....

I'd say some of the low output dairy businesses are sailing closer to the wind according to some suppliers who are struggling to get paid

 

[som farmer]

Grosvenor Farms av profit over last 4 years...£1.25m/year.....

I'd say some of the low output dairy businesses are sailing closer to the wind according to some suppliers who are struggling to get paid

spring boys are taking a battering this spring, from the weather, just as their income starts up again. Hardly surprising money is tighter than normal this spring. Long wet winter, must have had an effect on the cows, in the run up to calving.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Grosvenor Farms av profit over last 4 years...£1.25m/year.....

I'd say some of the low output dairy businesses are sailing closer to the wind according to some suppliers who are struggling to get paid

If that was over 10,000 acres or 2500 cows then it may not seem so good .

 

[crashbox]

Grosvenor Farms av profit over last 4 years...£1.25m/year.....

I'd say some of the low output dairy businesses are sailing closer to the wind according to some suppliers who are struggling to get paid

32 million litres/year, av. profit c. 4ppl.

2200 hectare (owned?) estate with diversification and arable; not sure if that profit includes subsidies and diversification e.g. property.

So, is that strong performance? Noting the extreme highs and lows of prices recently?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I think this is very different to the publics view of what a “regenerative” bottle of milk should look like.
with no rules the whole thing is a farce

So having rules stops something becoming a farce?

Red Tractor?

NVZ?

I agree that the "regenerative" label is being abused but show me one that isn't, even with rules.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

You think you will have a choice? I can guarantee there will be a stand at grosvener farms today and a talk on how the trials etc are going.

Some big multi national company with whispers in politician ears will buy up the patent/license whatever and that additive will become a license to keep ruminants.

Only if we let it

 

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