Carbon capture by organic soil ?

[Ffermer Bach]

How about if ‘all else being equal’ was added to the end of point 2?

We need to take good ideas from all the different ‘boxes’ if we are to have a survivable regenerative future; organic might mean ploughing today but that doesn’t mean it will tomorrow.

I’ve seen some exciting no till organic field scale vegetable production at Ctifl in France; it looks like it won’t be long before fairly intensive cropping will fit within a Holistic Context which includes regenerating your soil.

I think if we use nitrogen fertlisers, these tend to cause the soil organic matter to reduce (and therefore release carbon), where as in holistic organic farming humus will increase and capture carbon and hold it in the soil, not so sure organic on its own with ploughing would increase carbon in the soil, maybe with grass/livestock breaks in the rotation.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think if we use nitrogen fertlisers, these tend to cause the soil organic matter to reduce (and therefore release carbon), where as in holistic organic farming humus will increase and capture carbon and hold it in the soil, not so sure organic on its own with ploughing would increase carbon in the soil, maybe with grass/livestock breaks in the rotation.

It just depends how often you do stuff

If I keep taking hay off the same paddock I'm removing carbon from the landscape.....

It's just a profit and loss account, a little bit of anything is no issue, the soil ecosystem can handle stress, just not chronic stress...

A plough once a year is damaging, once a decade ten times less damaging.
I cut my whole farm for supplement last year and have enough in the clamp for 3 years, and carbon flows in.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I am NOT like that, as I take some shutting up!

You and Pete would get on exceptionally then

 

[Kiwi Pete]

You and Pete would get on exceptionally then

 

[Clive]

Clive i think you will find that the organic farmers would like to find ways of using conservation Ag techniques and are looking at crimper rollers, winter-killed cover crops, shallow ploughing and more min-till techniques. Green manures have been apart of stockless organic systems for years.
To be fair you need to add vegetable farmers into your list of farmers who deep plough and heavily cultivate.
The truth is that a rotation using long grass breaks and ploughing is better at sequestering carbon than one which ploughs every year but it probably isn't as good as a conservation Ag system.
It is probably also fair to say that a power-harrow is worse than a tined cultivator as well, certainly is for earthworms

I know they would like to but successful zero till / conservation ag is hard enough to get right with ag chems never mind without

 

[CornishTone]

It just depends how often you do stuff

If I keep taking hay off the same paddock I'm removing carbon from the landscape.....

It's just a profit and loss account, a little bit of anything is no issue, the soil ecosystem can handle stress, just not chronic stress...

A plough once a year is damaging, once a decade ten times less damaging.
I cut my whole farm for supplement last year and have enough in the clamp for 3 years, and carbon flows in.

It should also be remembered that carbon sequestration has as much to do with soil type and location as management practices. You might have a better base equation than other parts of the world to sequester carbon, in the UK it will alter from place to place also.

Wasn’t there a thread somewhere saying payments should be linked to soil carbon content? If so there will be winners and losers if payments are based purely on carbon content or carbon increase. Certain people thinking one size can fit all again?

Should the consideration of soil carbon be incentivised monetarily or should it just be common practice and part of “normal” management? The later may require a small change in mindset perhaps, but everyone, or most, seem to recognise the benefits of increasing soil carbon. It’s just the practicality of making it happen?

I read that just a 2% increase in soil carbon world wide would mitigate all our carbon emissions. That’s not an impossible target, and quite a worthy one I’d have thought?

 

[FARMERJERRY]

I know they would like to but successful zero till / conservation ag is hard enough to get right with ag chems never mind without

true but that doesn't mean they cant try, and maybe min-till or occasional plough is the compromise.

 

[Clive]

true but that doesn't mean they cant try, and maybe min-till or occasional plough is the compromise.

They can (and some do). Without herbicides though some tillage is enevitable and production (hense efficiency is lower) however on a conventional no till conservation ag Farm high output, efficient food production is perfectly possible without any tillage at all

The sensible way forward for agriculture and sustainable food production exists somewhere in the middle between the extremes of organic and conventional imo - I think the SA know this

 

[steveR]

The best thing about organic carbon capture from my point of view is:View attachment 608850
It's life's energy

Only one thing wrong with that bottle... it's half used!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Only one thing wrong with that bottle... it's half used!

Yes, but you'll be coming through duty-free!

 

[joe soapy]

Carbon capture was often in the news stories and there was a market for carbon credits,
Seems quiet on this front now, farming has huge potentil for this and could at the same time improve production with the right knowledge.
On the uplands we have unknowingly created huge amounts of carbon lockup by taking part in stock reduction schemes

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes it's just a shame that everyone uses a crapload of fuel and energy to farm, instead of just letting it happen without cab lights and a gaggle of beacons, because all that hard work neatly undoes most of the good work..... as an industry there's a lot still to be learnt about environment, folk still see conventional tillage as a viable option yet!

 

[Clive]

Carbon capture was often in the news stories and there was a market for carbon credits,
Seems quiet on this front now, farming has huge potentil for this and could at the same time improve production with the right knowledge.
On the uplands we have unknowingly created huge amounts of carbon lockup by taking part in stock reduction schemes

"natural capital" is the current buzz word - it will be back in a big way IMO as part of post Brexit sub schemes

 

[Kiwi Pete]

"natural capital" is the current buzz word - it will be back in a big way IMO as part of post Brexit sub schemes

Farmers might have to make some inroads on soil habitats, if they want to have the biology worthy of such fancy buzzing-words...



Do folk really just plough and cultivate because they can afford to, or is that just a myth?

 

[hendrebc]

Farmers might have to make some inroads on soil habitats, if they want to have the biology worthy of such fancy buzzing-words...



Do folk really just plough and cultivate because they can afford to, or is that just a myth?

They plough and cultivate because they think its the only way to do things. Wee always done it this way so it must be the right way to do it
Or my least favourite phrase "wont work here because of (insert excuse)" without evem trying it

 

[steveR]

Yes, but you'll be coming through duty-free!

To be honest after all the years of being a European with effectively no duty free, I had forgotten it...

 

[joe soapy]

"natural capital" is the current buzz word - it will be back in a big way IMO as part of post Brexit sub schemes

Be interesting watching and taking part, we have a bit of a problem having hugely increased the surface biomas under the current schemes, its going to be difficult to demonstrate a futher increase
without creating a highly dangerous environment for the public

 

[Kiwi Pete]

They plough and cultivate because they think its the only way to do things. Wee always done it this way so it must be the right way to do it
Or my least favourite phrase "wont work here because of (insert excuse)" without evem trying it

Amazing!

Oh to be free to choose.

 

[Clive]

Farmers might have to make some inroads on soil habitats, if they want to have the biology worthy of such fancy buzzing-words...



Do folk really just plough and cultivate because they can afford to, or is that just a myth?

It is really because they can afford to so why not ! They think its the only way they can grow crops, "their" farm is different, heavier, weedier, more slugs etc . basically a million reasons (excuses !) why it can't be done

we know the real reason that it either works or doesn't is knowledge and management and that's (mostly but not totally) missing in the UK right now - subs have created a situation where you can pretty much farm how you like and still make a decent living and /or lifestyle so cant really blame people for doing just that

 

[Bury the Trash]

Be interesting watching and taking part, we have a bit of a problem having hugely increased the surface biomas under the current schemes, its going to be difficult to demonstrate a futher increase
without creating a highly dangerous environment for the public

Big one is the ticks crawlin up rambler and dog walker legs.mind you all the deer around arnt helping that one.
and even very young lambs loaded with ticks.....