Carbon capture by organic soil ?

[Farmer Roy]

Thanks mate

Here, have some cattle and necessary infrastructure.View attachment 609328
Don't play in the snow too long, you'll get a chill.

It's funny isn't it, livestock breeders here make a big point of stud animals being "paddock ready", being bred for the conditions, of being good "doers", of ease of calving & good mothering etc

Bulls bred & reared in Tasmania generally aren't sold into North Queensland, for example . . .

Ewes which struggle to lamb are culled . . .
Cattle with bad temperaments are culled . . .


Maybe our livestock producers are doing something wrong ?
Maybe, rather than breeding for the environment they should just change the environment ?

 

[CornishTone]

Thanks mate

Here, have some cattle and necessary infrastructure.View attachment 609328
Don't play in the snow too long, you'll get a chill.

Jeez, get a fudging room will you!!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Jeez, get a fudging room will you!!!

Love thy neighbour

 

[Farmer Roy]

Burning stubble always changed the soil structure. It worked better afterwards and often grew better crops for a year or 2.

Here, burning stubble is a disaster.
The heat involved effectively "bakes" the soil surface & buggers any biology near it. Along with the loss of ground cover, which is invaluable to us ( & the soil biology we rely on )

In dry years, it can be the difference between having a crop or not . . .

An example that has really stuck with me - yrs ago I was planting Sorghum ( so it was late spring / early summer ) into wheat stubble ( after a 12 month fallow ), but there was an area of a ha or so that had been burnt by accident a few months earlier. Under the stubble the soil was soft & friable, you could " feel " it from the tractor & the way the ( disc ) planter was behaving. As soon as you hit the burnt are, it was hard & dry & rough & you could feel it in the cab & hear & see it on the planter. I went back & looked at that job a few months later out of interest & it was chalk & cheese . . .

 

[BTS]

A lot of grassland is still burnt off in the USView attachment 609196


Thanks @BTS (hope you don't mind I used your picture)

No worries, I stole it myself from google images
But the picture is of Kansas, it's not far from my area

 

[BTS]

The reasoning of burning off pastures around here in the U.S (at least here in KS) is that everyone says "the grass grows quicker", which I don't believe is true, you can just see the green grass due to the pasture being black. The grass that isn't burned grows just as fast if not faster but it is harder to see due to the old dry grass covering it.

The people burned the pastures around my house (kind of scary since I live in the middle of it) about 3 to 4 years ago. The grass still hasn't recovered, it's nothing but weeds, the grass is barely a foot tall and the leaves are spotted, yellowed and look diseased.

They also burn the pastures to "kill the cedar trees", but the cedar trees don't grow very fast and there isn't a need to burn every year (or at all).
The time they burned around my house was so windy, (20mph) the fire moved fast enough it didn't even kill the cedar trees , they brought out a skidsteer with a bush mower and mowed off the trees (man that was a black cloud of dust around that machine) .

In spring when everyone starts burning, there are weather advisories to "stay in doors" because it's not safe to be outside due to smoke. The air is so full of smoke it makes your eyes water, the burning and the smoke can last around 2 weeks, pending on weather/wind conditions.

The native "prairie chicken" about went extinct because everyone burns in laying season. 20 years ago you couldn't drive a mile without seeing 1 or 2 prairie chickens or pheasants, now I'm lucky to see one a month and even that's rare .

People really need to change the way they farm, it doesn't work very well here anymore, the past 10 years has been so dry, even now we haven't had rain in 3 months, if we are lucky we get a heavy fog or a sprinkle but it's so little it can't be measured.

 

[Farmer Roy]

The reasoning of burning off pastures around here in the U.S (at least here in KS) is that everyone says "the grass grows quicker", which I don't believe is true, you can just see the green grass due to the pasture being black. The grass that isn't burned grows just as fast if not faster but it is harder to see due to the old dry grass covering it.

The people burned the pastures around my house (kind of scary since I live in the middle of it) about 3 to 4 years ago. The grass still hasn't recovered, it's nothing but weeds, the grass is barely a foot tall and the leaves are spotted, yellowed and look diseased.

They also burn the pastures to "kill the cedar trees", but the cedar trees don't grow very fast and there isn't a need to burn every year (or at all).
The time they burned around my house was so windy, (20mph) the fire moved fast enough it didn't even kill the cedar trees , they brought out a skidsteer with a bush mower and mowed off the trees (man that was a black cloud of dust around that machine) .

In spring when everyone starts burning, there are weather advisories to "stay in doors" because it's not safe to be outside due to smoke. The air is so full of smoke it makes your eyes water, the burning and the smoke can last around 2 weeks, pending on weather/wind conditions.

The native "prairie chicken" about went extinct because everyone burns in laying season. 20 years ago you couldn't drive a mile without seeing 1 or 2 prairie chickens or pheasants, now I'm lucky to see one a month and even that's rare .

People really need to change the way they farm, it doesn't work very well here anymore, the past 10 years has been so dry, even now we haven't had rain in 3 months, if we are lucky we get a heavy fog or a sprinkle but it's so little it can't be measured.

Can't like that . . .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The reasoning of burning off pastures around here in the U.S (at least here in KS) is that everyone says "the grass grows quicker", which I don't believe is true, you can just see the green grass due to the pasture being black. The grass that isn't burned grows just as fast if not faster but it is harder to see due to the old dry grass covering it.

The people burned the pastures around my house (kind of scary since I live in the middle of it) about 3 to 4 years ago. The grass still hasn't recovered, it's nothing but weeds, the grass is barely a foot tall and the leaves are spotted, yellowed and look diseased.

They also burn the pastures to "kill the cedar trees", but the cedar trees don't grow very fast and there isn't a need to burn every year (or at all).
The time they burned around my house was so windy, (20mph) the fire moved fast enough it didn't even kill the cedar trees , they brought out a skidsteer with a bush mower and mowed off the trees (man that was a black cloud of dust around that machine) .

In spring when everyone starts burning, there are weather advisories to "stay in doors" because it's not safe to be outside due to smoke. The air is so full of smoke it makes your eyes water, the burning and the smoke can last around 2 weeks, pending on weather/wind conditions.

The native "prairie chicken" about went extinct because everyone burns in laying season. 20 years ago you couldn't drive a mile without seeing 1 or 2 prairie chickens or pheasants, now I'm lucky to see one a month and even that's rare .

People really need to change the way they farm, it doesn't work very well here anymore, the past 10 years has been so dry, even now we haven't had rain in 3 months, if we are lucky we get a heavy fog or a sprinkle but it's so little it can't be measured.

....I can see why ya want to get out...

You're right, people need to look at the way they do things.

When you said "burn off the pastures" I imagined a light rate of glyphosate - that's one of the tools they use here a little instead of mowing - graze out all the good leafy grass and then give the stalks a light waft....
I was horrified when I saw that picture.

 

[Woolly]

One point I've wondered about no till etc, is:

In the early Spring, should we be digging over our vegetable garden?

Or have we had it wrong for centuries?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

One point I've wondered about no till etc, is:

In the early Spring, should we be digging over our vegetable garden?

Or have we had it wrong for centuries?

I guess it depends on your philosophy a little...
I let mine grow itself full of weeds and covered it with silage sheet over winter, lifted it, planted seedlings and sowed seeds and put potatoes on in random places, and then just mulched it with straw and the first cut of silage off the lawn (only use a catcher the once)

It's not doing too badly, the soil is much better than if I dug it over, I think, and we should have new potatoes for Christmas.

Best thing is I don't have to water it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

For anyone with burning questions about grassland restoration, and if it's possible to sink 11T of soil carbon/ha/year....
This is why I say what I say, and do what I do.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

One point I've wondered about no till etc, is:

In the early Spring, should we be digging over our vegetable garden?

Or have we had it wrong for centuries?

Do an internet search for Charles Dowding no dig vegetables.
Works a treat. My 88 year old Father has taken it up, so tradition can change at any age!

 

[Coximus]

I've measured the soil C in my soils, and found that since I moved to zero artificial N grazing, and more rotation that its gone from 1.3%avg to 2.1% in 4 years.... and climbing, but thats what 70% of sheep farmers in my area do anyway........... The rented in fields that get N on (because LL takes a silage cut for sale to a dairy) has gone from 0.9% to 1.3% by having grazing re-introduced (previously just silage ground for 15 years post F&M) - Showing that MOST farms, practises are building soil C - its all a trade off about rates - introduce cover crops AND grazing, into arable and the cycle can become very virtuous without the need to remove fertilizers - its all about the bigger picture

 

[Bury the Trash]

No nice whisky for you.


You'll get some of that crap American stuff

don't drink the stuff anyway it can rot the liver .........

 

[BTS]

....I can see why ya want to get out...

You're right, people need to look at the way they do things.

When you said "burn off the pastures" I imagined a light rate of glyphosate - that's one of the tools they use here a little instead of mowing - graze out all the good leafy grass and then give the stalks a light waft....
I was horrified when I saw that picture.

I'm glad to hear people on my side for leaving, everyone around here doesn't get it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm glad to hear people on my side for leaving, everyone around here doesn't get it

And people still wonder if people are causing the earth to heat up, @banjo says it is happening anyway.... I ask, where does the heat from all that fire go?
Fall off the edge of the world?

Meanwhile, I'm second guessing if mowing the grass my cattle left is worth the fuel I burn, or not.... I had to cut my thistles anyway....




I weep for our poor planet, and I completely understand why you don't want to see that.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Posted I here for ironic value

How the plough made the modern economy possible
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41903076

 

[Pasty]

Only if you want a future.

It's not just the UK mind you....

But when area payments stop and folk are kidding themselves a bit of organic matter in the soil is worthy of a payment, it just ain't!

Carbon flows are what is crucial, to think of carbon as stocks harks back to headage payments.
Carbon has to keep flowing into the soil, it is constantly escaping - the only way to keep it going in is with plant and animal residues, but growing cover above all else.

And stop removing the residues, leave it on the soil, it does not need to be buried!!
Sorry @Bury the Trash the soil will do the job better than your plough, because it won't destroy the habitat in the process.. pores and aggregates are the important part, because that's room for living things.

" Our earth is naked, hungry, running a fever "

So we need to nurture it, cover it up, feed it...View attachment 609264
View attachment 609266
Nature is always trying to mend herself and keep carbon flowing into the landscape, she will fix the compaction and degradation if we let it, and will do it faster if we look at the template and help, rather than try to make it look even and orderly.View attachment 609268
Food production doesn't have to come at a cost to the ecosystem, try telling me that these animals are releasing more methane and carbon as dioxide than what is entering the landscape View attachment 609270
...or that companion cropping / polyculture creates competition for resources...View attachment 609272
...or, "we can't do much about the weather...."...

Mimic natural systems..

Abandon monoculture

There is a lot in that. I have one field that if I mow and leave the grass it's all gone within a week. Like ALL GONE. It just eats it up. Other fields which are more stony or shillet seem to not be able to consume it so well. I figure what I need to do is pile more stuff on those fields rather than abandon them or put 100kg of N per ac on them. Get all the waste on the farm and fire it on there. Anything and anything I can get brought in if I know it is clean. Anything green or brown from wood chip to cabbages. You can't put a price on this stuff. Problems with thistle go away when you get the soil activated. I have learned that this year on a small part of the farm.

 

[Pasty]

The reasoning of burning off pastures around here in the U.S (at least here in KS) is that everyone says "the grass grows quicker", which I don't believe is true, you can just see the green grass due to the pasture being black. The grass that isn't burned grows just as fast if not faster but it is harder to see due to the old dry grass covering it.

The people burned the pastures around my house (kind of scary since I live in the middle of it) about 3 to 4 years ago. The grass still hasn't recovered, it's nothing but weeds, the grass is barely a foot tall and the leaves are spotted, yellowed and look diseased.

They also burn the pastures to "kill the cedar trees", but the cedar trees don't grow very fast and there isn't a need to burn every year (or at all).
The time they burned around my house was so windy, (20mph) the fire moved fast enough it didn't even kill the cedar trees , they brought out a skidsteer with a bush mower and mowed off the trees (man that was a black cloud of dust around that machine) .

In spring when everyone starts burning, there are weather advisories to "stay in doors" because it's not safe to be outside due to smoke. The air is so full of smoke it makes your eyes water, the burning and the smoke can last around 2 weeks, pending on weather/wind conditions.

The native "prairie chicken" about went extinct because everyone burns in laying season. 20 years ago you couldn't drive a mile without seeing 1 or 2 prairie chickens or pheasants, now I'm lucky to see one a month and even that's rare .

People really need to change the way they farm, it doesn't work very well here anymore, the past 10 years has been so dry, even now we haven't had rain in 3 months, if we are lucky we get a heavy fog or a sprinkle but it's so little it can't be measured.

Cedar is a very useful timber. Maybe better to keep some good examples fenced and let goats turn the rest into goat curry? That is proper farming.

 

[Coximus]

There is a lot in that. I have one field that if I mow and leave the grass it's all gone within a week. Like ALL GONE. It just eats it up. Other fields which are more stony or shillet seem to not be able to consume it so well. I figure what I need to do is pile more stuff on those fields rather than abandon them or put 100kg of N per ac on them. Get all the waste on the farm and fire it on there. Anything and anything I can get brought in if I know it is clean. Anything green or brown from wood chip to cabbages. You can't put a price on this stuff. Problems with thistle go away when you get the soil activated. I have learned that this year on a small part of the farm.

What do you mean exactly? That getting lots of OM dumped on a field makes the weeds go away? (Obviously i understand that healthy grass is competitive). How much grass are you meaning? just currious as I have a few areas im planning on lathering the OM on, or changing grazing to suit.