catchment sensitive concreting consents required

[CiderJan]

I've been approved for concrete grant under catchment sensitive farming and am in process of doing it but have noticed the criteria in how to claim now requires a number of consents:

The RP5 concrete yard renewal requires proof that planning not necessary for which I've applied for planning under permitted development as a track. Permission probably not needed but local planning have charge of £500 for advice so permitted development planning cheaper.

The catchment farming officer also insisted on rp13 underground yard drainage and to install a rp7 sediment trap however their spec requires:

'Before applying, applicants must seek advice from the EA and Local Planning Authority to check if consent is required to carry out the planned work. You do not need to provide this with your application, but you will need to submit consents/permissions with your payment claim. Applicants will have to send the following with their application:'

I'm really not sure how we are expected to do this? I've asked local EA but will take 30 days for them to look at my email. Potentially need to apply for planning again for sediment trap/pond and to install drainage pipes underground but that seems excessive and will cost way more than the grant is for!

Hoping somebody on here has dealt with this kind of thing before and can point me in the right direction?!

 

[PSQ]

There comes a point where you wonder if grants are counterproductive to progress, or more to the point, a complete waste of time and sanity.

If the scheme is offering to pay the full cost of planning, the concrete itself, and the required SUDS system, then fair enough. If it’s just hanging you out to dry on a host of unnecessary costs and hoops to jump through then do it off your own back without the SUDS and hassle.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

Similarly we have a CSF grant for concrete outside a cattle shed.
Like you we applied (& got) for 28 day notice as a track.

I'm going to ask our CSF officer tomorrow

 

[Lakesdigger]

There comes a point where you wonder if grants are counterproductive to progress, or more to the point, a complete waste of time and sanity.

If the scheme is offering to pay the full cost of planning, the concrete itself, and the required SUDS system, then fair enough. If it’s just hanging you out to dry on a host of unnecessary costs and hoops to jump through then do it off your own back without the SUDS and hassle.

Or are some scheme's a backwards way round of keeping an eye/ controlling what people are up to?

 

[FarmerBruce]

I wrote to our council asking if the concreting of our yard requires planning permission. They replied eventually saying that no it didn’t. This was all that was required. But it WAS required when claiming the grant money, so don’t not do it, thinking they won’t ask for it, they will!!!

 

[SLM]

I wrote to our council asking if the concreting of our yard requires planning permission. They replied eventually saying that no it didn’t. This was all that was required. But it WAS required when claiming the grant money, so don’t not do it, thinking they won’t ask for it, they will!!!

How did you go about it when they asked to see planning? Apply for planning and have a delayed payment?

 

[FarmerBruce]

How did you go about it when they asked to see planning? Apply for planning and have a delayed payment?

The letter from the council to say that planning wasn’t needed was what they wanted. But if I hadn’t that letter they wouldn’t have paid

 

[Northern territory]

I wrote to our council asking if the concreting of our yard requires planning permission. They replied eventually saying that no it didn’t. This was all that was required. But it WAS required when claiming the grant money, so don’t not do it, thinking they won’t ask for it, they will!!!

Second this, exactly what I did. Email proof required.

 

[CiderJan]

I was thinking a straightforward email would do it like you guys have but when I asked Cornwall Council planning they told me they charge £400 to respond to email like that!

 

[PSQ]

when I asked Cornwall Council planning they told me they charge £400 to respond to email like that!

I would ask a farming councillor to push your case for you.
£400 to answer an email sounds like a mix of 'extortion' and 'dereliction of duty'.

 

[CiderJan]

This is the transcript of the reply to my do I need planning email.

Good afternoon

Thank you for your email.

We cannot informally advise whether planning consent is required as we would need to look into the site history and any constraints. If you wanted confirmation in writing, you could look into our Do I Need service. The fee for non-householder works is £495.00 and you should receive a response within 20 working days.

However, as these are agricultural works, they may fall under a Prior Approval application if they meet certain criteria. I will put a link to more information below:


Would be good to know if this is just a Cornwall planning thing or more widespread? I may try emailing Devon and see if there's a different answer!

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

I wonder if this something @George from SJM Planning has come across/seen? I realise this isn't something George would normally get involved with but worth an ask.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I wonder if this something @George from SJM Planning has come across/seen? I realise this isn't something George would normally get involved with but worth an ask.

Thank you @carbonfibre farmer .

If you want proof that planning is not required then you need to apply for a Lawful Development Certificate not Pre-Application Advice (which the council are suggesting). Pre-app advice is non-binding and is the views of a Case Officer, not a formal judgement by the council.

What you are proposing sounds like an engineering operation which is reasonably necessary for agriculture so would fall under Part 6, Class A Permitted Development rights - BUT it is not one of the operations listed as requiring Prior Approval so I would suggest a Lawful Development Certificate would be your best course of action to get formal confirmation.

 

[Werzle]

I've been approved for concrete grant under catchment sensitive farming and am in process of doing it but have noticed the criteria in how to claim now requires a number of consents:

The RP5 concrete yard renewal requires proof that planning not necessary for which I've applied for planning under permitted development as a track. Permission probably not needed but local planning have charge of £500 for advice so permitted development planning cheaper.

The catchment farming officer also insisted on rp13 underground yard drainage and to install a rp7 sediment trap however their spec requires:

'Before applying, applicants must seek advice from the EA and Local Planning Authority to check if consent is required to carry out the planned work. You do not need to provide this with your application, but you will need to submit consents/permissions with your payment claim. Applicants will have to send the following with their application:'

I'm really not sure how we are expected to do this? I've asked local EA but will take 30 days for them to look at my email. Potentially need to apply for planning again for sediment trap/pond and to install drainage pipes underground but that seems excessive and will cost way more than the grant is for!

Hoping somebody on here has dealt with this kind of thing before and can point me in the right direction?!

I didnt proceed with mine because of the same concerns, i will do it at my own expense and how i want it done.

 

[Downtrodden Dad]

We knew that we didn’t need planning, but to have the official response from the planning department we had to pay for it.

 

[CiderJan]

Thanks all for the responses. I'm probably wasting my breath but I will bring this up directly with the RPA as paying £400 plus my time applying etc. to get a letter to say I don't need planning for an option worth less than £300 is ludicrous. It's a shame that the Catchment sensitive advisor insisted that we install a sediment pond etc. in order to get a grant on concrete as it's massively complicated everything and I would just not bother otherwise.

 

[steveR]

Thanks all for the responses. I'm probably wasting my breath but I will bring this up directly with the RPA as paying £400 plus my time applying etc. to get a letter to say I don't need planning for an option worth less than £300 is ludicrous. It's a shame that the Catchment sensitive advisor insisted that we install a sediment pond etc. in order to get a grant on concrete as it's massively complicated everything and I would just not bother otherwise.

Sounds about right for the CS Advisor I am afraid.

Had similiar a few years ago. Pulled the project in the end as unviable which seemed to come as a surprise to him.

 

[ploughman1963]

I will let you know how we get on but we have used a local firm of agents to submit a previous claim for concrete yard (which was paid - no issues) and we have a further one to do. The agents have a ‘catch all’ letter from planners apparently that they submit that seems to satisfy RPA. I was hesitant about paying an agent to submit our applications and claims to start with but so far, I am glad I did

 

[white_stuffed]

Does anyone have any updates regarding the best way of proving planning permission is not required? (I'm going down the same rabbit hole as @CiderJan when I look on our local planning website.) I had a quick look at the claim procedure and I can't see the requirement to include proof, but presumably they ask for it later in the claims process?

 

[Suffolksucklers]

I just emailed our planning department with a plan showing where it was and that it was being done to improve water quality etc and they emailed back to say planning not required. Surprised what others say on here about it being a real issue as normally our planning department can be the most awkward of all as we are technically a national park