CE mark question

[Sparkymark]

Hi all.
How important is the CE mark on sheds?
If i have to get planning permission to put a steel framed shed up does the resulting shed need a CE mark on it or can i make it myself with the help of a welder?
And if i built it myself would it qualify for insurance cover etc?

 

[Charolais cattle]

Just my thought on it.. my dad put cattle shed up 30 odd years ago.. and usual crack when on... it was grant shed.. the 3 outside posts on shed where CE stamp.. the rest weren't .. grant man look at front 3 see stamp.. happy days.. got grant money.. fast forward 30 odd years forward.. they the only posts in shed not rotten... we even replace feed barriers last year.. and the ce post took ages to drill.. far harder steel.. so yes i would use CE marked steel.. hope tat helps...

 

[Nearly]

@eulb @Forever Fendt
@RWG Contracts

 

[Forever Fendt]

Hi all.
How important is the CE mark on sheds?
If i have to get planning permission to put a steel framed shed up does the resulting shed need a CE mark on it or can i make it myself with the help of a welder?
And if i built it myself would it qualify for insurance cover etc?

If you are going to make it yourself get a design done on it from a structural engineer this will give you all the correct size steels and a bracing layout and connection details, maybe £200 would cover this if you are costal or in an elevated position make sure this is covered if you buy a generic design,as for the steel you should not be able to buy non ce marked steel stock, the differences people refer to in steel from the past could be the fact it was common to have different grades 43a and 50b or S235 and S355 but most only stock the higher grade now, as far as i am aware you can make it yourself if its a one off design and not a series production run but i would get the design done if i was you but watch the prices as they can vary massive some will want to charge you £1k +

 

[MD @Minshall Buildings]

Sound advise from @Forever Fendt. Worth noting that fabricating under CE is not just about the steel its also about the welding quality as all welders have to be coded .That said, whilst there are no issues with fabricating it yourself, would be worth checking with insurers beforehand as to whether they cover these types of structures, or say nothing..... as you prefer!

 

[Still Farming]

Ok until falls down ?

 

[Matt]

So with CE certificate from shed builders. Do you have to give the farmer/customer a certificate or not?

 

[MD @Minshall Buildings]

The CE marked building supplier/fabricator has a certificate from a Notified Body and as part of that accreditation has to demonstrate through audit both compliance with the approved process and traceability of materials used. There is rarely a certificate issued to the client( farmer or otherwise)although there is nothing to stop you asking for written confirmation that the building complies, if you want that detail.

Most CE marked farm building suppliers are part of RIDBA so would be worth checking on their website for contacts if that helps

 

[S J H]

Ok until falls down ?

I've seen a few ce marked sheds and they're built from far smaller steel than non ce marked sheds that I've looked at. I had some quotes last year, and the difference in steel was unbelievable.

 

[MD @Minshall Buildings]

Cant comment on pre CE sheds but under CE designers are required to prove their design ( snow loading etc.) for the purpose and location of the building and this determines what steel is used to fabricate the shed. Clearly there are different criteria for different types of building ie. grain store vs. straw store etc. Also worth noting that steel quality has improved over the years such that smaller sections offer the same performance as larger sections would have years previously.
Regarding your recent quotes and their variations, if you have concern about a quote then challenge the supplier to confirm his calculations, assuming they are quoting for the same spec and use building as everyone else.
Always best to detail your spec( size, intended use, cladding, openings, location, etc) in writing and then send this to every supplier so you can be sure they are all quoting like for like.

 

[Hesston4860s]

So out of these two shed specs which would you think is the CE marked one-

Shed 1 100ft x 50ft x 18ft

Gable columns 203x133x25
Gable posts 203x102x23
Main Columns 254x146x31
Wind bracing K design in 70x3 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 all connecting plates 12mm thick, eaves 8 bolt, ridge 6 bolt.
Purlins 177x1.5 2 bolts per end and sleeved

Shed 2- 100ft x 50ft x 16ft

All columns 305x165x40
Gable posts 203x133x25
Wind bracing K design 70x4 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 with 8 bolt 15mm thick connection plates both ends
Purlins 177x1.8 4 bolts per end and sleeved with anti sag bars

Both sheds have fibre cement roofs.

Both sheds are built and stand within half a mile of each other, one was home made one was bought in from a CE marked firm !. One cost half the price of the other !.

 

[Forever Fendt]

So out of these two shed specs which would you think is the CE marked one-

Shed 1 100ft x 50ft x 18ft

Gable columns 203x133x25
Gable posts 203x102x23
Main Columns 254x146x31
Wind bracing K design in 70x3 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 all connecting plates 12mm thick, eaves 8 bolt, ridge 6 bolt.
Purlins 177x1.5 2 bolts per end and sleeved

Shed 2- 100ft x 50ft x 16ft

All columns 305x165x40
Gable posts 203x133x25
Wind bracing K design 70x4 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 with 8 bolt 15mm thick connection plates both ends
Purlins 177x1.8 4 bolts per end and sleeved with anti sag bars

Both sheds have fibre cement roofs.

Both sheds are built and stand within half a mile of each other, one was home made one was bought in from a CE marked firm !. One cost half the price of the other !.

Shed 1 ce marked ,shed 2 not

 

[Charolais cattle]

Shed 2 ce marked

 

[Hesston4860s]

Shed 1 ce marked ,shed 2 not

Correct !.
How did you know ?.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I'm guessing that shed 1 is ce marked & designed to meet the minimum requirements. The thicker sections on shed 2 don't necessarily mean that it's stronger than shed 1though as there are many factors at play & it may well end up as a weaker structure if not correctly designed & made. The home made one may well be cheaper on paper, but has full account been made of time and overheads?

 

[Hesston4860s]

I'm guessing that shed 1 is ce marked & designed to meet the minimum requirements. The thicker sections on shed 2 don't necessarily mean that it's stronger than shed 1though as there are many factors at play & it may well end up as a weaker structure if not correctly designed & made. The home made one may well be cheaper on paper, but has full account been made of time and overheads?

Shed 2 is my own that I built from a set of plans, even with my time and everything else included it’s still much much cheaper.

 

[Tim G]

How important is the CE mark on sheds?

Plenty of old sheds around, some hundred years old or more, not ce marked and still standing. Most of those that aren't probably pulled down rather than fell down.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Shed 2 is my own that I built from a set of plans, even with my time and everything else included it’s still much much cheaper.

I'm glad that it's worked for you. Unfortunately I have met quite a few folk who thought that they could do it cheaper and I would guess that probably only one in three end up with a genuine saving. Having a proper set of plans and detailed drawings is always a good starting point.

 

[Lincsman]

So out of these two shed specs which would you think is the CE marked one-

Shed 1 100ft x 50ft x 18ft

Gable columns 203x133x25
Gable posts 203x102x23
Main Columns 254x146x31
Wind bracing K design in 70x3 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 all connecting plates 12mm thick, eaves 8 bolt, ridge 6 bolt.
Purlins 177x1.5 2 bolts per end and sleeved

Shed 2- 100ft x 50ft x 16ft

All columns 305x165x40
Gable posts 203x133x25
Wind bracing K design 70x4 rhs
Rafters 254x146x31 with 8 bolt 15mm thick connection plates both ends
Purlins 177x1.8 4 bolts per end and sleeved with anti sag bars

Both sheds have fibre cement roofs.

Both sheds are built and stand within half a mile of each other, one was home made one was bought in from a CE marked firm !. One cost half the price of the other !.

There are small details in the flanges etc where they join that can make more difference in how well it will stand up to wind and snow rather than the amount of metal there.

 

[Hesston4860s]

There are small details in the flanges etc where they join that can make more difference in how well it will stand up to wind and snow rather than the amount of metal there.

The CE marked shed has virtually no flanges on the ridge plates and the gable flanges are also much shorter than I’ve got on mine.