Clamp v big bale silage cost

[aangus]

Has anyone ever thought of bigger bales?
Hell of a lot more in a 5ft or 5'6'' than a 4' for not much more plastic

The fella who bales for me makes them 4’6” saves on handling and plastic but can’t get them into the sheep ring feeders

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Has anyone ever thought of bigger bales?
Hell of a lot more in a 5ft or 5'6'' than a 4' for not much more plastic

Chopping gets more in the bale so smaller cheque for the wrapper man and the waste collector

 

[Skintagain]

The fella who bales for me makes them 4’6” saves on handling and plastic but can’t get them into the sheep ring feeders

There’s too much stuff in a 4’ bale for a sheep feeder never mind a 4’6”. We split a bale between two rings now to cut wastage

 

[aangus]

There’s too much stuff in a 4’ bale for a sheep feeder never mind a 4’6”. We split a bale between two rings now to cut wastage

Yeah thats what I'm doing now too

 

[milkloss]

Buy a forage wagon.............and then at least we can borrow it !!

Get two........ we might clash.

 

[Matt77]

Get two........ we might clash.

Can you imagine the pit with two!!!

 

[puppet]

ive read an AHDB study into the losses and its near impossible to get losses with a pit system under 10% with higher field losses and wasteage around the edge, losses with bales are more like 2%,

We have around 1000t in a clamp and would be seriously worried if 100 tons was wasted. Earth bank but only a bit of waste at the top edge and maybe 4 rotaspreader (yes, a whole new thread there) so max 20 tons.
Using a wagon field losses are minimal as not blowing the stuff all over the place.

 

[Sid]

We have around 1000t in a clamp and would be seriously worried if 100 tons was wasted. Earth bank but only a bit of waste at the top edge and maybe 4 rotaspreader (yes, a whole new thread there) so max 20 tons.
Using a wagon field losses are minimal as not blowing the stuff all over the place.

Wasted pre and post clamp.

Majority would be due to handling process and waste in trough

 

[puppet]

The feed trailers are licked clean. Some waste getting pulled out the side but more if using bales. With a wagon the process in the field is exactly the same as baling so should losses not be the same?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

ive read an AHDB study into the losses and its near impossible to get losses with a pit system under 10% with higher field losses and wasteage around the edge, losses with bales are more like 2%, when you consider the cost of making silage with the current fert price why are these losses always overlooked in the bales v pit arguments? it costs us £2/bale o plastic currently, not as big a cost as many make out

I'm not sure they are overlooked as much as rightly ignored.

Losses depend on the operators and circumstances.
In ideal conditions, losses would be minimal in bales or clamp.
In poor conditions, bales can save a crop in a way a clamp can't.

I have also seen stacks of bales that would cost a lot to dispose of in a way you wouldn't get with a clamp.

In my circumstances, bales would normally cost me more than double the cost to clamp.

Because I do most of the work myself, losses are minimal either way.

 

[Bossfarmer]

We have around 1000t in a clamp and would be seriously worried if 100 tons was wasted. Earth bank but only a bit of waste at the top edge and maybe 4 rotaspreader (yes, a whole new thread there) so max 20 tons.
Using a wagon field losses are minimal as not blowing the stuff all over the place.

True less field loss with a wagon, lot of the pit losses arent visable though, wat does a wagon cost?

 

[Bossfarmer]

The feed trailers are licked clean. Some waste getting pulled out the side but more if using bales. With a wagon the process in the field is exactly the same as baling so should losses not be the same?

With a baler/wrap.combination the bales are air tight far quicker than with a pit, things can be timed to perfection, you can also start/stop easier in wet weather

 

[Bossfarmer]

I'm not sure they are overlooked as much as rightly ignored.

Losses depend on the operators and circumstances.
In ideal conditions, losses would be minimal in bales or clamp.
In poor conditions, bales can save a crop in a way a clamp can't.

I have also seen stacks of bales that would cost a lot to dispose of in a way you wouldn't get with a clamp.

In my circumstances, bales would normally cost me more than double the cost to clamp.

Because I do most of the work myself, losses are minimal either way.

If bales are done right next to no losses, with clamp more luck involved with the weather, clamp generally needs much higher fixed costs such as pit infrastructure and higher running costs like feed wagons and extra tractors to run them, i throw about 8 bales on a trailer and cart them to ring feeders in outlying fields from oct-dec how do i shift this volume quickly with loose pit silage? I also have them in stacks of different quality and feed accordingly to young stock/culls/fatter cows/leaner cows, how do guys with one big pit get round this?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

If bales are done right next to no losses, with clamp more luck involved with the weather, clamp generally needs much higher fixed costs such as pit infrastructure and higher running costs like feed wagons and extra tractors to run them, i throw about 8 bales on a trailer and cart them to ring feeders in outlying fields from oct-dec how do i shift this volume quickly with loose pit silage? I also have them in stacks of different quality and feed accordingly to young stock/culls/fatter cows/leaner cows, how do guys with one big pit get round this?

If clamp is done right, there should be next to no losses but agree that bales have a huge advantage in catchy weather.
They also have a huge advantage as you have said, in that you could have different stacks of different types and use them appropriately.
A pit needn't cost much more than hardstanding for stacking bales.
You don't need to have any extra kit for a clamp beyond a grab.
I usually have 2 cuts in a pit and manage it so I use the better half [top or bottom] for finishers and the worse for the sucklers.
It does come down to personal circumstances.

I find that a wagon is about half the cost of baling.
The biggest saving for me is in time and space.
The wagon puts all the grass in a small area of my yard whereas bales are left for me to deal with and take up a huge amount of room and take longer to use.

 

[betweenthelines]

True less field loss with a wagon, lot of the pit losses arent visable though, wat does a wagon cost?

Visible but not seen!

Just seen a picture on another thread of a "tidy" clamp. There's about a wheelbarrow load of spilt/dropped silage on the ground where the last grab full was taken.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Where are these precision chops blowing it all over place?
Most balers are designed to dump more grass on the field each time they eject a bale.
02 barrier sheet is way better than wrap at preventing loses.

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

If clamp is done right, there should be next to no losses but agree that bales have a huge advantage in catchy weather.
They also have a huge advantage as you have said, in that you could have different stacks of different types and use them appropriately.
A pit needn't cost much more than hardstanding for stacking bales.
You don't need to have any extra kit for a clamp beyond a grab.
I usually have 2 cuts in a pit and manage it so I use the better half [top or bottom] for finishers and the worse for the sucklers.
It does come down to personal circumstances.

I find that a wagon is about half the cost of baling.
The biggest saving for me is in time and space.
The wagon puts all the grass in a small area of my yard whereas bales are left for me to deal with and take up a huge amounts of room and take longer to use.

How does a pit not cost much more than hard standing for bales? As long as your more than a specified distance from a watercourse you just get on with hard standing , if you want a pit you need approval from environment agency plus a lot of other bells and whistle's to build one ?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

How does a pit not cost much more than hard standing for bales? As long as your more than a specified distance from a watercourse you just get on with hard standing , if you want a pit you need approval from environment agency plus a lot of other bells and whistle's to build one ?

My understanding was that the regulations and need for tanks etc, was rapidly becoming similar.
The cost of the land should be less as less is required, earthworks would be similar so a clamp just needs concrete for floor, walls and maybe a roof.
As I have continually said, much of it is down to personal circumstances, existing infrastructure and ability to develop.

 

[puppet]

True less field loss with a wagon, lot of the pit losses arent visable though, wat does a wagon cost?

Wagon is £110 to £140 plus diesel. Lift 100 acres in 2 days at 4 acres an hour first cut depending on size of wagon. One tractor buckraking(ourselves) and maybe some extra rolling.
One man to phone and if weather changes just one call to rearrange. In good going half the cost of a silage team if our time is counted as 'free'.
As stated above second cut on top to cows, lower half to youngstock.
We feed with a grab to nearest sheds 20m away and trailers to other sheds 400m away. Seem to clean it up

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

My understanding was that the regulations and need for tanks etc, was rapidly becoming similar.
The cost of the land should be less as less is required, earthworks would be similar so a clamp just needs concrete for floor, walls and maybe a roof.
As I have continually said, much of it is down to personal circumstances, existing infrastructure and ability to develop.

Agree, it's what suits you. But new clamps already need a drain and storage tank don't they? But bales still OK without