comprehensive school system struggling to run

[Chasingmytail]

So another teacher has left the school right in the middle of mocks. After paternity leave for 3 weeks. Different supplies have been covering and now he's left. How can a professional who is head of the subject leave at such a crucial time. How can this be allowed to happen and ethically how can that person justify leaving the pupils in the lurch like this. Personally I am shocked. I would of thought there would be some duty of care as a professional?

The pupils have been in and out all week as the staffing and recruitment has plummeted.

The local authority need to seriously step in and sort this out. Teachers are leaving. I get the system is very tough in comprehensive and you need to have a certain personality to withstand it. Perhaps some arent up to the job.
If its not that its the endless sick leave some are having.

Is the system falling apart? I have paid to fill in gaps. My boys are lucky they have other skills and will be fine as not academic but I was hoping for some sparkle in at least 1 subject. What about other children who have to find jobs at 16? I dont get it.

 

[betweenthelines]

I think you are judging schools and teachers by the standards of 30 odd years ago.

Part of the problem is that a few years ago teachers pay was increased to help improve recruitment, the result being that people went into the job for the money, not as a vocation.

I've got a friend who recently retired. She went into teaching "late" after a while on the dole, then a couple of years as a DHSS (job centre) clerk, never really like the classroom side of teaching but ended up as Head of a cluster of schools (One Comp and half a dozen primaries) on a 6 figure salary.

I've also got a niece who has recently qualified as a Primary teacher- a year at a Training college, the same in schools and she's qualified. Nice kid, but I wouldn't trust her take charge of a pet rabbit, let alone a room full of 10 year olds!

 

[Munkul]

So another teacher has left the school right in the middle of mocks. After paternity leave for 3 weeks. Different supplies have been covering and now he's left. How can a professional who is head of the subject leave at such a crucial time. How can this be allowed to happen and ethically how can that person justify leaving the pupils in the lurch like this. Personally I am shocked. I would of thought there would be some duty of care as a professional?

It's allowed to happen because he is also a person, not a robot, and has a life outside of the workplace, and is protected by employment rights same as any employee anywhere in the UK?

If the supply teaching isn't up to snuff then this is the fault of the school...

 

[borderterribles]

In response to the OP, the private school sector seems little better. No.1 daughter has spent the last few years working in private schools in London, but is leaving the sector, shortly. The first school she was at catered mainly for the children of embassy staff and minor celebrities. The children were disinterested and difficult to motivate, and there was a huge turnover of staff, often at short notice. The second school is much more prestigious and exclusive, however she reports that many of her colleagues are unpleasant bullies, who shouldn't be involved in education , at any level.

 

[Coximus]

So another teacher has left the school right in the middle of mocks. After paternity leave for 3 weeks. Different supplies have been covering and now he's left. How can a professional who is head of the subject leave at such a crucial time. How can this be allowed to happen and ethically how can that person justify leaving the pupils in the lurch like this. Personally I am shocked. I would of thought there would be some duty of care as a professional?

The pupils have been in and out all week as the staffing and recruitment has plummeted.

The local authority need to seriously step in and sort this out. Teachers are leaving. I get the system is very tough in comprehensive and you need to have a certain personality to withstand it. Perhaps some arent up to the job.
If its not that its the endless sick leave some are having.

Is the system falling apart? I have paid to fill in gaps. My boys are lucky they have other skills and will be fine as not academic but I was hoping for some sparkle in at least 1 subject. What about other children who have to find jobs at 16? I dont get it.

The teacher is a human like all of us - theyre entitled to leave a job, theyre not slaves.
yes they have contractual obligations and they wont get paid and will loose some benefits if they leave outside of their normal notice windows which are set at holidays - that said I have friends with 15 years teaching experience who have done just that - had enough. Schools full of kids with horrific behaviour, and parents who wont hear the truth, and a new wokeish system of not using negative language or offending the children, displinarys for misgendering dear little Humphrey(etta) whos changed their mind for the 4th time this year about their pronouns.
Parents ringing up all the time moaning their precious little moron didnt get an A because they didnt do the work but thats the teachers fault.
Its rough in alot of schools, and loosing 2 or 3 anchor teachers can break the morale of the staff and send it into a tailspin, especially if the school has a cohort of crappy kids. The teachers then get blamed for stuff way out of their control - the management will never accept responsibility - couple that with a system which panders to dolehead parents and their kids as the left pushes for equality of outcome over equality of opportunity and teaching is becoming very unforgiving.

Also remember alot of teachers with say 4 5 or 6 years experience are then being thrust into roles that someone with 15 or 20 would of held 10 to 15 years ago - this further increases the risk they will go and leave.

 

[ollie989898]

I work in healthcare and often feel obliged to care and protect other people. However, I can tell you, without equivocation, that the second a job started to take out of more than I was able to give, I would leave it, even right there that second if I had to. And what is more, my colleagues would encourage or even insist that I did so as well. You can't be in this kind of work unless you are committed to it as it could have a deleterious effect on the level of care. I would presume that teaching is similar.

I can tell you that one of the biggest issues facing the education system is parents who either give no fudges about their children's education or even become combative with teachers. I see this in healthcare from time to time. I would encourage all forumites to work a role that deals with the public at least once in their lives. It opened my eyes- a lot.

 

[Coximus]

I work in healthcare and often feel obliged to care and protect other people. However, I can tell you, without equivocation, that the second a job started to take out of more than I was able to give, I would leave it, even right there that second if I had to. And what is more, my colleagues would encourage or even insist that I did so as well. You can't be in this kind of work unless you are committed to it as it could have a deleterious effect on the level of care. I would presume that teaching is similar.

I can tell you that one of the biggest issues facing the education system is parents who either give no fudges about their children's education or even become combative with teachers. I see this in healthcare from time to time. I would encourage all forumites to work a role that deals with the public at least once in their lives. It opened my eyes- a lot.

Agree 100%. I have worked in care when short of £ and it takes alot out of you, but not nearly a much as dealing with public and their expecations.

 

[MRT]

If the supply teaching isn't up to snuff then this is the fault of the school...

I appreciate your point, however the school cannot be at fault, it is bricks and mortar. Eventually there is a person or people who are at fault and their decision

a new wokeish system of not using negative language or offending the children, displinarys for misgendering dear little Humphrey(etta) whos changed their mind for the 4th time this year about their pronouns.

We reap what we sow. All corporal punishment inc. a smack on the bum that doesn't leave a mark now illegal in Wales. It will lead to badly behaved children. As I said to the head teacher it leaves only psychological punishments/cohersions which in many cases are more damaging and less effective than a reality check smack on the behind and probably also illegal, so the state can sort them out. I'm not allowed to.

 

[ollie989898]

I appreciate your point, however the school cannot be at fault, it is bricks and mortar. Eventually there is a person or people who are at fault and their decision

We reap what we sow. All corporal punishment inc. a smack on the bum that doesn't leave a mark now illegal in Wales. It will lead to badly behaved children. As I said to the head teacher it leaves only psychological punishments/cohersions which in many cases are more damaging and less effective than a reality check smack on the behind and probably also illegal, so the state can sort them out. I'm not allowed to.

Back when I was in school suspending people or just outright expelling them worked fine. And lunchtime and after school detentions were handed out like confetti to the usual suspects. No one dared fudge about there.

 

[MRT]

Back when I was in school suspending people or just outright expelling them worked fine. And lunchtime and after school detentions were handed out like confetti to the usual suspects. No one dared fudge about there.

They didn't bother where I went sadly as there would be nobody left. More of a feeder school for prison than Eton. There were teachers that taught; the religious studies teacher a sort of angry-ghandi was the only one capable of maintaining order on an entire floor. He had a couple of chairs thrown at him once and threw a table back (hard). I liked him. Old testament. Ate dinner on his own in a broom cupboard not the staff room for reasons I can only guess at but know I would support... The recipient of the table has since done time but at least was knowledgable on the religious sensitivities of his cell mates.

 

[Coximus]

They didn't bother where I went sadly as there would be nobody left. More of a feeder school for prison than Eton. There were teachers that taught; the religious studies teacher a sort of angry-ghandi was the only one capable of maintaining order on an entire floor. He had a couple of chairs thrown at him once and threw a table back (hard). I liked him. Old testament. Ate dinner on his own in a broom cupboard not the staff room for reasons I can only guess at but know I would support... The recipient of the table has since done time but at least was knowledgable on the religious sensitivities of his cell mates.

reminds me of my RE teacher who once swung a chair at a particularly nasty kid who's now doing time for drugs and terrorism shizzle - just before the chair hit him he swung it so it landed right way down and told said kid to sit on it, this lad went from threatening to get his dad to knife the teacher, to crying and shaking. He was then told to stop crying and if the teacher could hear him breathe hed be breathing out of his arsehole for the rest of his life.

For the next 3 years I recall his lessons being very calm, quite kindly and affectionate actually, and we all got As and Bs at GCSE.
This teacher also played rugby and was the sort of old school ex army, "Clean fight" type of bloke. Sadly we need alot more teachers like that now. He was the schools go to trouble solver to be fair. He had no problem telling parents the truth, including to my own parents " Either Daves behaving, and his grades are improving, or he's becoming more criminally aware and cheating. I haven't decided yet"


Edit * He also confiscated a fishing knife off me in Y8 and gave it back at the end of 6th form, id forgotten. He had a profound Christian sense of right and wrong, which I really Liked.

 

[jd6420s]

Sadly my daughter's teacher has left at the end of this Easter term. She didn't have another job to go to either.
I really rated her but her main reason for leaving was the parents. Some of the children's behaviour was really poor and she would tell them off. The darling child would then go back to Mum and tell them a different story which Mum totally believed. This led to several heated discussions at the school.
My wife is a teacher too and over the last 25 years her enthusiasm for the job is waning. Parents simply don't do their job properly anymore and expect school to do it for them.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

As I said to the head teacher it leaves only psychological punishments/cohersions which in many cases are more damaging and less effective than a reality check smack on the behind and probably also illegal, so the state can sort them out. I'm not allowed to.
I think the psychological punishments that will/have replaced a judicious smack are far more damaging and long lasting. I am not condoning physical abuse, but a short sharp smack is far less damaging than what will replace it.

 

[SteveHants]

The average "life expectancy" of a teacher, career-wise is 5 years.

I trained as a secondary science teacher and plenty dropped out in the PGCE year, it was pretty tough, what amazed me was those who quit during their NQT year, they'd got all the PGCE stuff done, qualified and were looking forward to less observations and refining their teaching, but the pressure is/was massive and they just couldn't cope.

Teachers are under massive pressure - their annual performance is linked to exam results, and they see, to transfer this pressure to pupils, which is not a good thing and completely different to when I was a pupil. I once heard two teachers with several years experience bemoaning a lad who hadn't turned up to GCSE "revision camp" that they'd put on in Feb half term (when they should really have been doing planning and catching up) because he'd gone and got a girlfriend who was (apparently) a "bad influence". I couldn't understand if these people had ever been 16 or their job pressure distorted their view so much that they thought everyone felt that kind of pressure. When I was 16, if you'd have given me the choice of hanging round with a girl I liked with even the vaguest possibility I might be getting a shag sometime soon, Id have done exactly the same.......

Add to that, the kind of people that seem to filter up to the senior leadership teams (often PE teachers because they have more spare time to train), and you have a toxic combo. A school (primary) a friend of mine works at honestly had the head saying that they'd try and drum out the "sickness culture" and that teachers feeling ill should just get over themselves and come to work - Even if we weren't on the tail end of a pandemic, that kind of stuff is toxic and (given that I used to be responsible for hygiene on a broiler hatchery) shows a complete lack of any understanding of epidemiology. Sick staff comes in -> More staff get sick -> Some are more susceptible than the one who managed to come in -> Loads of people are now off sick (slow handclap) without even mentioning the moral imperative that you have as a teacher to safeguard kids (I would say deliberately infecting them with disease is "causing harm" and an issue).

I think I mostly got by because I was nearly 40 and had seen enough of the world to know when to tell people to pee off. That said, I escaped to higher education pretty fast. It suits my personality better.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

My middle daughter is an experienced primary school teacher. She is paid well but sometimes the battles that parents bring to school leave her weak at the knees.
Not forgetting having to deal with some of the TA’s some of whom bring in as many issues as the children and they are there supposedly to assist
This is a seven days a week job simply to keep being organised so the children actually learn & progress.
SS.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

This is a seven days a week job simply to keep being organised so the children actually learn & progress.

Many of the NQT's seem to think they can do it 9 to 5 and enjoy the holidays & pension.

Then when evenings and weekends are taken up with planning, marking and phonecalls to parents they soon lose interest, which is how we get to a career average of 5 years and management/leadership positions for anyone who sticks it longer than 5 years.

 

[Coximus]

Many of the NQT's seem to think they can do it 9 to 5 and enjoy the holidays & pension.

Then when evenings and weekends are taken up with planning, marking and phonecalls to parents they soon lose interest, which is how we get to a career average of 5 years and management/leadership positions for anyone who sticks it longer than 5 years.

The problem is its sold to them as that, with training and marking i the holidays so they average out the same as an equivilent management job in the private sector.
In reality most teaching jobs are less than minimum wage when all is counted.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Back when I was in senior school I can’t think of a single teacher that left in the 7 years I was there (obviously there may have been some younger teachers that did) but to many of them it was a vocation
They had respect from us and they gave us respect back, as pupils
Discipline was enforced and we respected the boundaries
I think today’s schools are much harder on teachers as there was a no respect anymore

 

[SteveHants]

Back when I was in senior school I can’t think of a single teacher that left in the 7 years I was there (obviously there may have been some younger teachers that did) but to many of them it was a vocation
They had respect from us and they gave us respect back, as pupils
Discipline was enforced and we respected the boundaries
I think today’s schools are much harder on teachers as there was a no respect anymore

The lack of respect comes from the senior leadership team often, sadly.

 

[glasshouse]

I got the belt at least once a week at school. It didnt really hurt.