Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

[jack6480]

a lot more has been going on than moaning ! several farmers have given up significant time to write letters, emails, magazine articles, doing podcasts, attending meetings (physical and virtual) with lawyers, AHDB and AIC (RT or NFU wont talk hence why not them !)

Red Tractor issues aside I found it great to see farmers finally working together (without personal reward or ambition ) to at least try and active a positive outcome for their industry - This forum has helped facilitate that ....... TFF is not about "moaners" it's a independent platform for free speech , knowledge exchange and change that is long overdue in this industry

well done

 

[Stoosh]

Apologies, I have not read all of every thread on this subject. What is the latest on the Fresh Produce and livestock assurance schemes? How is this likely to play out?

 

[Silver Jubilee]

Fair points/advice (you make).

Genuinely interested to hear your thoughts. If the below 5 options existed, which do you think is best?

1. Stick with RT. Leave it as a monopoly.
2. Negotiate Gatekeeper style access for UK grain, then let the market make its own choices. Let it run alongside RT.
3. Create a new scheme to compete head on with RT, not dissimilar to RT, but more in line with the standards in the Irish schemes. 3 year NSTS, somewhat less standards to adhere to, yet same good market access as Irish grain has.
4. Create a new scheme for immediate market access and to access more demanding customers, whilst also negotiating UK gatekeeper style access.
5. Something else I haven't thought of.

There's more than one way to do things. We have to choose the one we think is the best way. That decision will be pivotal to success or failure. Decision time is approaching fast. Or decide to not bother, and that the current RT offering is perfectly fine as it is, and that we're happy.

Opinions and reasoning count. We're listening and eager to learn of logical opinions to help decide the best way forward.

Edit. I think part of the problem with RT is the company/board structure. I think making a change in this respect is vital. It should be in farmers' control, and not out of control.

Firstly, many thanks to you and your associates for all the sterling work you have been doing on this subject - something which is well overdue. The NFU know this is a big problem, yet seem unable or unprepared to do anything about it.

For me, as a feed grain producer, option 2 would be my preference.

I have been asking lorry drivers collecting grain from my farm this year, what paperwork they are given when collecting loads of feed grains from boats and destined for feed mills. Almost without exception, the reply is "just a weighbridge ticket, boss" - no form of identification whatsoever!! Now, if one of these non RT loads is tipped in a 1000 tonne silo, which is partly full of RT assured grain, the whole silo has just been rendered non assured. This practice must be happening all day, every day. I have been trying to get to the bottom of this issue as to whether the feeds leaving these mills, leave with a farm assurance conformation or not? I can only assume that farm assured livestock farmers would be required to have such certification for each load received?

Thoughts on this subject would be welcome.........

 

[DrWazzock]

I’m leaning back towards option 2. Negotiate equivalent to imports access. Self declaration that we comply with U.K. pesticide rules and adhere to best storage practice should suffice.
Don’t really want RT Mark II.
You could argue that meets HACCP requirements as well as any imports can meet them.

 

[Pigless]

As @Humble Village Farmer posted we need to break the monopoly that RT/AIC have and then market forces will determine the correct level of assurance.
Diffilculty is finding the right hammer to break it.
RT have said they will allow non assured grain to be fed to RT livestock via a feed mill. ( I would like to see it in writing though)
AIC have said they are open to a new scheme, but I fear they will slow this down and get it so tied up in knots it will end up as RT mk2.
What is the best way forward??

 

[Grass And Grain]

I’m leaning back towards option 2. Negotiate equivalent to imports access. Self declaration that we comply with U.K. pesticide rules and adhere to best storage practice should suffice.
Don’t really want RT Mark II.
You could argue that meets HACCP requirements as well as any imports can meet them.

Theoretically we can equal imports by taking a 1kg sample from 600 farms, mixing all those 1kg samples together, take a sub sample from that 600kg, then send it off to the lab. Imagine (if it were imports) those 600 farms were the 600 farms where grain came from to load a boat.

If AIC are perfectly happy with this for imports, then they really can't justify not allowing the same system for UK grain.

So yes, we should push for a equivalent to this for UK grain.

 

[tw15]

Mills will take UK grain anyway. Won't disrupt growers beyond some hectic mill panicking, which should be put to bed by our strong and effective farming union.

Lol.

Do you know of a strong and effective farming union ? lots of british farmers are wanting one .

 

[tullah]

Do you know of a strong and effective farming union ? lots of british farmers are wanting one .

As soon as one's got off the ground youll see a mass exodus from a non farming union.

 

[MrNoo]

i dont understand the point of this thread. why would anyone care if RT goes under? you will still be able to sell the same produce for the same money. just like how non-RT lamb is worth exactly the same as RT lamb currently, and has been for years at the right outlets.

prices are dictated by supply vs demand, not by RT, and the demand for food isnt going to suddenly drop just because RT goes under.

Actually non assured wheat/barley is circa £15-20 discount obviously feed, no milling or malting yet imports fly in. But I know for a fact that non assured gets mixed with assured (uk grown unassured), my feed barley went for malt and all my milling spec feed wheat went up North.

 

[Pigless]

As soon as one's got off the ground youll see a mass exodus from a non farming union.

@Clive did talk about one with a one member, one vote internet based system. It's on a thread somewhere but I can't find it. Perhaps it's time to relook at it?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Apologies, I have not read all of every thread on this subject. What is the latest on the Fresh Produce and livestock assurance schemes? How is this likely to play out?

Its likely to lead to a collapse of Red Tractor and so you want to make sure they don't have any of your money when they collapse as you won't get it back.

 

[ollie989898]

Can someone again please explain who the heck AIC are and how they can become the organisation of authority in this situation?

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Can someone again please explain who the heck AIC are and how they can become the organisation of authority in this situation?

Yes they are friends with everyone on the gravy train. They give each other directorships to keep everything going their way. For instance the AIC chairman Robert Sheasby is a prominent NFU bod. RT head of cereals, Guy Smith is a prominent NFU bod.

There's quite a bit of money coming indirectly from farmers that keeps the whole cartel running in their favour.

 

[An Gof]

Yes they are friends with everyone on the gravy train. They give each other directorships to keep everything going their way. For instance the AIC chairman Robert Sheasby is a prominent NFU bod. RT head of cereals, Guy Smith is a prominent NFU bod.

There's quite a bit of money coming indirectly from farmers that keeps the whole cartel running in their favour.

You really don’t know what you are talking about

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

You really don’t know what you are talking about

Quite right but I only say what I see, which is a closed shop of the same people going round the system, all feeding off the farmer.

 

[Stoosh]

Apologies, I have not read all of every thread on this subject. What is the latest on the Fresh Produce and livestock assurance schemes? How is this likely to play out?

Its likely to lead to a collapse of Red Tractor and so you want to make sure they don't have any of your money when they collapse as you won't get it back.

Thanks.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen with the packers/supermarkets/buyers etc? What will their stance be regarding quality of product. I realise quality is a necessity but it is generally the case currently that the assurance standard is a necessary standard.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Thanks.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen with the packers/supermarkets/buyers etc? What will their stance be regarding quality of product. I realise quality is a necessity but it is generally the case currently that the assurance standard is a necessary standard.

They buy lots of non red tractor produce anyway. I think when Red Tractor goes tits up then the legal standards that we adhere to won't alter

 

[Barleymow]

Thanks.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen with the packers/supermarkets/buyers etc? What will their stance be regarding quality of product. I realise quality is a necessity but it is generally the case currently that the assurance standard is a necessary standard.

They don't worry about imported un assured grain

 

[SilliamWhale]

You really don’t know what you are talking about

Why do you say that?

Both Sheasby and Smith are both ex nfu people now in roles actively acting against farmers collective interest. I don't know the machinations of it all like you but I can see what the results of it are, a lot of others feel the same.

 

[milkloss]

Why do you say that?

Both Sheasby and Smith are both ex nfu people now in roles actively acting against farmers collective interest. I don't know the machinations of it all like you but I can see what the results of it are, a lot of others feel the same.

Surely they are trying to change it from the inside........

now where's that tongue-in-cheek smiley?