Continous flow dryer running costs v. co-op stores

[Chalky]

Not many niches in producing feed wheat-and if we all(try to) produce milling, there wont be much bunce in that either.

Used CS up North in the past & here cont flow & storage. Comparing the two- far cheaper at home(another of the group estates uses a CS). There is no comparison-that is on the cost of drying and storage-which I suppose is what everyone is arguing about.

in life if you want things easy, they are usually more expensive.

 

[rob1]

Not many niches in producing feed wheat-and if we all(try to) produce milling, there wont be much bunce in that either.

Used CS up North in the past & here cont flow & storage. Comparing the two- far cheaper at home(another of the group estates uses a CS). There is no comparison-that is on the cost of drying and storage-which I suppose is what everyone is arguing about.

in life if you want things easy, they are usually more expensive.

I think with storage there are many ways of doing it and some will cost more than others, but all those who have put the cost of drying here have higher cost per tonne than I pay WG, notice clive still hasnt told us what it costs him

 

[Chalky]

I have it on fairly good info a certain northern CS after paying advances against wheat last harvest pretty much told growers after their costs(annual charge, haulage, drying)-that was it! Wettish harvest at times, payed out £70-80 I am told as advance. We can dry wheat from 22-23% here for about £7/T. Granted, that is helped by kero price. Friend up there who runs a commercial store, and all local stores/coops got together to agree no discounted drying due to reduced fuel price. All showing an equal stance rather than gift what could be a one year blip(though it looks that it is unlikely). I have his rates & weight loss tables. The weight loss is the advantage of COOps over commercials. We contact dried 1500 T here using commercial scales, and will have a good couple of wagon load out of it after outloading. That is the storemaster's-he built the shed. COOps will return as silo surplus/bonus to paid up members. This fact is something that has not been mentioned so far I think.
We calculate harvest from intake moisture to 14.2% for storage. The bunce comes from the fairly universal commercial weight loss scales(when compared to actual scientific). Some merchants offer wet delivered weight as sold-but they will account for it in charges-they built the store-and are after payback-some have FOB advantage eg Lingrain, Tynegrain, Gleadells @ Immingham so no more haulage. You are likely to have less grain to sell from a commercial store(at least in all of my experience)than from a jointly owned Coop. Of course the haulage of wet weight grain, in a wet harvest, also adds up to a massive weight of worthless H2O that you have elected to wagon to a central store

 

[rob1]

Dragging water to store is certainly a cost that is a pain , dont know about any other CS than the one I am a member of but we get paid 45% end of NOV another 40 end of march balance june and any store surplus in sept although advances can be had if required at a cost, drying is deducted in nov and annual charges in march (IIRC) .

Is that £7 a tonne just the fuel cost? We would be paying just over 9 but that obviously includes the labout cost etc, if yours includes everything that is cheap

 

[Condi]

Those bins/silo's are not use for other kinds of storage so if the grain storage business folded the site is mothballed .......... Viking Grain.

Please understand what you are talking about. Viking went bust due to granting options and some other risky trading practices. The silos were never mothballed, and are still used by Openfield.


I believe that Frontier put a £4m cash injection into Camgrain, as well as taking on some empty storage space. What they pay on an annual basis I dont know. For that they got the marketing rights. Rumour also has it that not all customers are happy with how they are running the marketing side.

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

What happens when the New '2015' Central store needs rebuilding in x years time, who pays for the rebuild?

Our original silos are 34 years old and have been resealed at the bases and had their roofs painted. This has been paid for out of the store income.

When the time comes for those original silos to be pulled down and rebuilt, that will also be paid for out of store income.

Once storage space is bought by a grower, it is owned forever.

 

[Clive]

You dont store milling wheat except your own you have said so no we are not all storing a bog standard product. How much do you charge for drying, from what I have read so far no on farn drier is doing it for less and most quite a bit more than CS charge.
As for borrowing against a CS store I have no idea as I have no need to do so but I dont think any bank will loan against a "shed" its worthless to them except as part of a farm they certainly wouldnt loan money against it on its own

The bank would quite happily take my yard as significant security, we considered it recently when buy some land, it has a value and can be sold a bank will take it as security

i VERY much doubt they would consider CS the same

 

[rob1]

The bank would quite happily take my yard as significant security, we considered it recently when buy some land, it has a value and can be sold a bank will take it as security

i VERY much doubt they would consider CS the same

Dont know as dont borrow money .
You still not told us what your drying charge is or how £8.50 is 30% return on £50 a tonne to build new stores

 

[sleepy]

I think that @Woldgrain Storage deserves credit in this thread for the polite and highly professional way they have answered all the questions and points put to them, amongst some quite scathing attacks. Some other companies could learn a lot from them.

 

[opininionated]

So, @chaffcutter , has that answered your question?

 

[Fuzzy]

BTW well done whoever was far enough sighted in 1965 to build such a store. About that time my grandfather was building DIY silos

At least it is one thing my Grandad got right, my Dad wanted Modern trendy 1970's Silos my grandad said NO if i put up a 80x90 barn it can be used for much more than storing grain for a few months. How right he was!
My Dad then put up indoor simplex bins when he took on the farm.........I took great pleasure in sending them for scrap a couple of years ago!!!

 

[Clive]

Dont know as dont borrow money .
You still not told us what your drying charge is or how £8.50 is 30% return on £50 a tonne to build new stores

sorry for my lack of instant answer ! it is my wedding anniversary !

my drying charges as as per merchants as at the moment all our space is taken my merchants, they set the drying charge for "their" store

store charges are dropping - they were a £1 higher but competition means supply and demand is shifting and we have to remain competitive, I actually get more like 6000 in a "5000t" store so there is certainly 20plus% in rental or in other words the store is paid for in 5 years - thats not a bad return. Then there is the capital situation, my facility would sell for probably double what it cost - over all lest say there are worse ROI's (like drilling wheat !)

 

[chaffcutter]

@opininionated - no not really, I wasn't expecting ww3 to break out again over this as I was just hoping that someone like @Brisel or @Derky had got a handle on drying cost, not commercial rates but actual costs. I lost the will to live about ten pages ago......

 

[Derky]

Going back to the question, it comes down to volume going through it. If you just want how much fuel it drinks I can find that but there are many variables.

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

Many thanks @Sleepy

Those of you on twitter can follow Woldgrain's current expansion phase @Woldgrain_Ltd

 

[Iben]

sorry for my lack of instant answer ! it is my wedding anniversary !

my drying charges as as per merchants as at the moment all our space is taken my merchants, they set the drying charge for "their" store

store charges are dropping - they were a £1 higher but competition means supply and demand is shifting and we have to remain competitive, I actually get more like 6000 in a "5000t" store so there is certainly 20plus% in rental or in other words the store is paid for in 5 years - thats not a bad return. Then there is the capital situation, my facility would sell for probably double what it cost - over all lest say there are worse ROI's (like drilling wheat !)

Congratulations on your anniversary! Well done for choosing an easy date to remember.

 

[roscoe erf]

Ok i admit it it as me who killed the deputy so please make this torture stop

 

[Daniel]

Maybe Clive could just PM Chafcutter his drying costs?!

 

[rob1]

sorry for my lack of instant answer ! it is my wedding anniversary !

my drying charges as as per merchants as at the moment all our space is taken my merchants, they set the drying charge for "their" store

store charges are dropping - they were a £1 higher but competition means supply and demand is shifting and we have to remain competitive, I actually get more like 6000 in a "5000t" store so there is certainly 20plus% in rental or in other words the store is paid for in 5 years - thats not a bad return. Then there is the capital situation, my facility would sell for probably double what it cost - over all lest say there are worse ROI's (like drilling wheat !)

So what are you charging? if you are doing it you must know what you are charging.
And are you now saying that these stores are only costing £40 a tonne to build if you are getting 6000 in a 5000 tonne store ? So 20% return on that figure is still £8 a tonne , are you standing for parliament at the next election ?

 

[Brisel]

sorry for my lack of instant answer ! it is my wedding anniversary !

Happy anniversary! We don't expect to hear from you in TFF today...

@opininionated - no not really, I wasn't expecting ww3 to break out again over this as I was just hoping that someone like @Brisel or @Derky had got a handle on drying cost, not commercial rates but actual costs. I lost the will to live about ten pages ago......

I have the fuel usage figures for whole harvests for the drier alone & I can work out electricty costs for the entire grain store over the whole season but nothing much more detailed than that as I don't have every repair/spares invoice for the drier since it was put in 15 years ago! Even the electricty costs this year are all to pot as the smart meter has lost it's connection to the billing dept of Npower (cheers BT!).