Contract farming agrements for 2020 season

[farmerfred86]

I can’t seem to get agents to grasp this point!

 

[Spud]

2.5t of sp wheat @£200 will pay rather better than 3.5 @£140

By a tenner.

 

[farmerfred86]

I know of one farm already linking rents to the September wheat price. Works well apparently. £200/t = £200/ha
BPS on top until it goes

 

[tjhooker]

We had one out right reject CS after I proposed It! Agree with you though.

Big result for you guys!! I actually want land to leave agreements into CS, farming the best bits only, but the next few years could be painful if landowner-comparative returns are to be maintained by contractors...

 

[tjhooker]

BPS might cover it, but it will cover establishment a crop of wheat as well. Its not an argument. The discussion is whether CS options will give a farmer more income compared to a CFA approach. The same argument could be had of any farm business, contractors or in-house operations.
I know a landowner who favoured a CFA over whole farm CS as he didn't know when he would be paid by the RPA for the CS. At least he could sell his wheat when he wanted to.

Totally agree about RPA risk / pain - I’m happy that I can hold my own against CS returns over the next 2/3 years but 4/5 years from now, with BPS degressed and a comparable CS return to be supplied to the landowner by an arable farming contractor - that’s going to hurt I predict!! Hence the question and the want for discussion on here..

 

[tjhooker]

I can’t seem to get agents to grasp this point!

Which point?

 

[R J]

I know of one farm already linking rents to the September wheat price. Works well apparently. £200/t = £200/ha
BPS on top until it goes

So 1 ton if wheat per Ha not acre !?

 

[farmerfred86]

Which point?

Sorry... the point that agents talk as if elms is a bps replacement without discussing management costs of these schemes etc.

 

[glasshouse]

By a tenner.

Ha
Do you spend the same on Spring and winter wheat?
I think not

 

[Spud]

Ha
Do you spend the same on Spring and winter wheat?
I think not

No, but as your figures assume (conveniently) that spring wheat makes a premium and winter doesn't, you're not comparing apples with apples.
ime winter quality is more reliable than spring

 

[farmerfred86]

So 1 ton if wheat per Ha not acre !?

BPS + the wheat price per hectare based on the ex-farm September price. So £200/t wheat price the rent is BPS + £200/ha (£80/ac), or at £100/t the rent is BPS + £100/ha (£40/ac).

I have always said £40-50 an Ac is about right without BPS. People used to laugh when I said that!

We had a neighbour that was charging us £85/ac on a very small parcel which works ok in a good year but its pointless to farm it like that. At £40/ac you can farm it properly. (we dropped that land!)

 

[GeorgeK]

Stewardship is only supposed to cover income forgone, if it's paying too well and people flock too it, payments will be reduced. I don't believe it's sensible to become reliant on stewardship long term. Defra will pay as little as possible, it's called 'value for the taxpayer'

 

[farmerfred86]

Stewardship is only supposed to cover income forgone, if it's paying too well and people flock too it, payments will be reduced. I don't believe it's sensible to become reliant on stewardship long term. Defra will pay as little as possible, it's called 'value for the taxpayer'

This is exactly my point - agents don't grasp this and sell the idea to landowners as a future environmental utopia that will pay them to do nothing. They don't consider running costs etc. As for the retirement payments... Jesus christ!

 

[tjhooker]

Stewardship is only supposed to cover income forgone, if it's paying too well and people flock too it, payments will be reduced. I don't believe it's sensible to become reliant on stewardship long term. Defra will pay as little as possible, it's called 'value for the taxpayer'

I do agree with that! I think this CS / Wildlife Offer is a short-term landowner-windfall only.

 

[Two Tone]

Linking rents to wheat prices could be a pretty good idea. There is some big figures in these CS schemes but there won’t be enough cash for everyone to get £650/ha for grass! Intriguing times ahead...

I looked at this idea years ago. The trouble is that it works if you get 4 tons and £135 a ton for the landlord/owner to get a ton's worth.
But it doesn't work for the tenant/contractor at 2 tons an acre at nigh on £200 a ton and the landlord/landowner still reckons he wants his ton's worth!

The only way it would work is that the Landlord/owner gets a quarter of the yield to sell himself.

 

[tjhooker]

This is exactly my point - agents don't grasp this and sell the idea to landowners as a future environmental utopia that will pay them to do nothing. They don't consider running costs etc. As for the retirement payments... Jesus christ!

In the short-term that land agent is totally right - my hope is that landowners will want a balanced approach, which it sounds like most on here do.... as when the current CS options end, landowners will need a farmer again in my view as a broad picture will be needed. It’s getting to 2027 as a purely Contract Farmer though ... I think the landowner wins over the next 5/6 years and it’s the government that’s assisting it...

 

[glasshouse]

In the short-term that land agent is totally right - my hope is that landowners will want a balanced approach, which it sounds like most on here do.... as when the current CS options end, landowners will need a farmer again in my view as a broad picture will be needed. It’s getting to 2027 as a purely Contract Farmer though ... I think the landowner wins over the next 5/6 years and it’s the government that’s assisting it...

What do you expect from the tories?

 

[GeorgeK]

This is exactly my point - agents don't grasp this and sell the idea to landowners as a future environmental utopia that will pay them to do nothing. They don't consider running costs etc. As for the retirement payments... Jesus christ!

Maybe the agents can see there's a lot of paperwork that will need doing, for a small fee.
There's a danger with stewardship that it might actually work and get some newts or rare flowers in it, then the land gets protected, never to be touched again. When the payments stop it's a problem because it's still in an SSSI and not much can be done with it

 

[Brisel]

By a tenner.

£60/t premium for spring wheat over a winter feed??

 

[Spud]

£60/t premium for spring wheat over a winter feed??

Quite unbelievable isn't it