Convert 50% of farmland to nature

[gatepost]

Interesting stuff coming out of Rothamstead, once land has reached it's maximum carbon content , grassland with good organic soil content ,then that's your lot, also they have worked out that the Nitrous oxide levels emitted from trash left with mintil (aprox 10x more damaging than CO2) is pretty well equal to CO2 emissions from ploughing etc. actually we have to give up flying and driving madley around like headless chickens , but that's not nearly such a good suggestion for the media to shout.

 

[Guy Smith]

There's a very good reason for there being less livestock in the East. Rainfall and grass growing. The climate in you part of the world suits cropping better. The climate in the West suits grass better. How much of the year do your dairy cows spend outside?

I don’t run the dairy unit, that’s another family member who is totally independent from me and if I did run it I’d do it differently with more grazing and less cows. It’s not just about climate it’s also soils. Essex marshes are good for grazing.

But I’m not disagreeing with your first four sentences.

 

[ajd132]

Interesting stuff coming out of Rothamstead, once land has reached it's maximum carbon content , grassland with good organic soil content ,then that's your lot, also they have worked out that the Nitrous oxide levels emitted from trash left with mintil (aprox 10x more damaging than CO2) is pretty well equal to CO2 emissions from ploughing etc. actually we have to give up flying and driving madley around like headless chickens , but that's not nearly such a good suggestion for the media to shout.

The problem with all these trials is that they are done in biologically inert, fairly dead soil and not long term biologically active stuff.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Interesting stuff coming out of Rothamstead, once land has reached it's maximum carbon content , grassland with good organic soil content ,then that's your lot, also they have worked out that the Nitrous oxide levels emitted from trash left with mintil (aprox 10x more damaging than CO2) is pretty well equal to CO2 emissions from ploughing etc. actually we have to give up flying and driving madley around like headless chickens , but that's not nearly such a good suggestion for the media to shout.

6:20 well managed cattle grazing will increase top soil depth. The plains of the American mid west have been “mob grazed” by buffalo for thousands of years. They have top soil 20ft thick in places.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

I see a scientist is saying we should convert 50% back to woodland and natural habitat

If anyone has read;https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wilding-Re...92&hvtargid=pla-604376265043&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
Then I don't need to say any more except that I haven't read all the posts on this thread and apologise if this has already been posted.
SS

 

[unlacedgecko]

I must admit I was under the impression/been told that managed/productive grass sequestered more carbon than what is effectively becoming scrubland. And as @unlacedgecko said the yellow dead grass is oxidising and releasing carbon.
Am looking to improve our own further by introducing some deeper rooting varieties and herbs/clover/chicory etc.

In order to sink carbon and be regenerative country must be grazed to the right level by ruminants and then given the appropriate rest interval, as per Allan Savory. More info available in his Holistic Management books.

 

[unlacedgecko]

If anyone has read;https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wilding-Re...92&hvtargid=pla-604376265043&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
Then I don't need to say any more except that I haven't read all the posts on this thread and apologise if this has already been posted.
SS

I’m mildly interested in what it says, but on principle I refuse to give the dole wallah anymore of my money.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

I’m mildly interested in what it says, but on principle I refuse to give the dole wallah anymore of my money.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by dole wallah?
SS

 

[unlacedgecko]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by dole wallah?
SS

As I understand it the whole project is only viable because of the additional £500k in subs they receive, over standard BPS.

I feel strongly that the tax payer should not be funding the destruction of good farm land like that.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

@unlacedgecko
Mmmm, personally, and you may well disagree, I think this is the best thing that could ever have happened to this piece of ground. Plus good-on-them!

This is seminal work and shows there is hope for exhausted, over utilised and in all essence just mud-in-a-paddock standard farming practices. I'm a believer that we as a species and in particular in the UK as we can, just re think the way intensive soil use is going. The idea that the 'wide screen' TV is the luxury should be reconsidered to the thought that good food is the luxury. It really isn't that difficult to not have or be bothered about a TV.
If the tax payer felt that strongly about these funds being directed to this estate there would be an outcry but this is working in the opposite direction in that the wilding concept has massive public support. The book is a huge best seller.

SS

 

[ollie989898]

6:20 well managed cattle grazing will increase top soil depth. The plains of the American mid west have been “mob grazed” by buffalo for thousands of years. They have top soil 20ft thick in places.

Please could you post this on the front page of the guardian in 4 inch capital letters?

Back in the day it is estimated that the BISON herds in the USA totalled 60 million animals- not far short of their national herd today. So having huge numbers of ruminants on planet Earth is not a concept mankind invented in the last 100 years.

Edit- bison, not buffalo.

 

[unlacedgecko]

@unlacedgecko
Mmmm, personally, and you may well disagree, I think this is the best thing that could ever have happened to this piece of ground. Plus good-on-them!

This is seminal work and shows there is hope for exhausted, over utilised and in all essence just mud-in-a-paddock standard farming practices. I'm a believer that we as a species and in particular in the UK as we can, just re think the way intensive soil use is going. The idea that the 'wide screen' TV is the luxury should be reconsidered to the thought that good food is the luxury. It really isn't that difficult to not have or be bothered about a TV.
If the tax payer felt that strongly about these funds being directed to this estate there would be an outcry but this is working in the opposite direction in that the wilding concept has massive public support. The book is a huge best seller.

SS

That’s the great thing, we can quite happily disagree.

I wonder how much the tax payer actually knows about the funding of such places? I’ve explained the current BPS scheme to a few “townies” I know and their eyes pop out at the feudal nature of it. Maybe it’s just how I tell it?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Please could you post this on the front page of the guardian in 4 inch capital letters?

Back in the day it is estimated that the buffalo herds in the USA totalled 60 million animals- not far short of their national herd today. So having huge numbers of ruminants on planet Earth is not a concept mankind invented in the last 100 years.

Current US national herd just under 100 million.

 

[ollie989898]

It may interest contributors that a study I have been reading has calculated the likely greenhouse gas loadings of present day livestock and those of wildlife in early parts of history. This is one of the graphs from that article.

Exploring the influence of ancient and historic megaherbivore extirpations on the global methane budget

Most large mammals are endangered or vulnerable across the globe. Although the loss of charismatic fauna is of great concern, their role in ecosystem function remains poorly characterized. Here, we quantify one potential effect of the decline of large ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ollie989898]

Current US national herd just under 100 million.

View attachment 851653

Indeed, and just the Bison numbered 60 million.

 

[ollie989898]

Can Cows Help Mitigate Climate Change? Yes, They Can! - JSTOR Daily

Livestock emit greenhouse gases. They also can sequester carbon and boost biodiversity.

daily.jstor.org

....Properly managed under the right confluence of conditions, cattle, hogs, sheep, goats, and chickens can help mitigate degraded soils and restore healthy ecosystems, which helps lock carbon deep in the ground. About 40 percent of ice-free land on earth is considered grazing land, which sequesters about 30 percent of our planet’s carbon pool. .....

 

[suffolksmallholder]

That’s the great thing, we can quite happily disagree.

I wonder how much the tax payer actually knows about the funding of such places? I’ve explained the current BPS scheme to a few “townies” I know and their eyes pop out at the feudal nature of it. Maybe it’s just how I tell it?

'Tis no different to 'Job-seekers' or any of the other social props that society in the UK funds. My job in 'education' is funded by everyone in the UK, farming is hugely funded by everyone too, The NHS for all its faults and etc, etc. Most peoples eyes glaze over when you get onto the subject of funding!
There are massive 'funding' pots that sit there waiting to be tapped by anyone in the know. Use it or loose it.
One, not that long ago that is related to tillage was a 60% grant towards purchasing GPS for your self-steer tractor/sprayer. 60% of a large sum of money is not to be sniffed at eh. Now some may well have beenn upset by the sums involved but it was there for the taking.......It may well still be available. I'm out of that loop for now.

SS

 

[gatepost]

The problem with all these trials is that they are done in biologically inert, fairly dead soil and not long term biologically active stuff.

Some of the trials on organic matter at Rothamstead, have been going on since the 1890s , yes I was amazed to find that out.

 

[Raider112]

I must admit I was under the impression/been told that managed/productive grass sequestered more carbon than what is effectively becoming scrubland. And as @unlacedgecko said the yellow dead grass is oxidising and releasing carbon.
Am looking to improve our own further by introducing some deeper rooting varieties and herbs/clover/chicory etc.

If half a dozen farmers can't agree which photo is the better how can we expect the public to get on board about pastureland.

 

[Ted M]

If half a dozen farmers can't agree which photo is the better how can we expect the public to get on board about pastureland.

The same thought occurred to me