Crimp rolling cover crops

[New Puritan]

As above, does anyone do this, or do you all use glyph?

I'd like to try it. I've found a YouTube clip of someone experimenting with it in the UK - see here:

Though that link isn't a ringing endorsement of it.

I also optimistically posted the plans in the machinery section on how to make one (here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/crimper-roller.201222/) but nobody was interested

Something I'd like to understand better is how to choose the right cover crop for planting between spring sown cereals that a crimp roller would control - I assume rye is not going to be it (though it seems to be one of the best cover crops for crimping, but for growing something other than cereals either side?).

I'd be interested in what anyone else has to say on this, assuming it's polite...

 

[New Puritan]

A bit of searching has turned this up: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-Foot-C...153378?hash=item3d4eafdd62:g:k0AAAOSw~1FUWPdh

7 foot is a funny width though, but it gives me an idea of prices...

 

[SimonD]

A good few videos on Twitter from @primewest , @farmerjamesPA & @no1farmerjake on this subject. There's more to it than simply crimping and they're ones to watch as the system matures. It's definitely something to watch IMO.

 

[New Puritan]

Thanks @SimonD - I don't s'pose you have links to those videos do you, I'm not a Twitter user which makes it harder to search (I think). No worries if not.

 

[Great In Grass]

https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/updates/crimper-roller-experiment-results

One of many videos Cotswold Seeds have made on the subject.

 

[SimonD]

Thanks @SimonD - I don't s'pose you have links to those videos do you, I'm not a Twitter user which makes it harder to search (I think). No worries if not.

http://farmerjakef.blogspot.co.uk/
Try Jakes blog, it goes straight into the crimper.

 

[New Puritan]

Ha - so it turns out the only people doing it are in the Cotswolds - the link I posted at the top is the same guy as @Great In Grass linked; and then @SimonD 's link took me to someone who had borrowed the crimper from the first guy...

 

[Louis Mc]

Funny thing is I'd imagine you do much more damage to habitat crimping it that a little sniff of round up

 

[Dan Powell]

I don't see the point in the UK. Wrong climate unless you only crop every other year. Need more heat to get plants to the right growth stage in time for spring sowing.

I think very shallow rotavator is a more realistic option.

Or a shallow plough. What's the harm?

 

[SimonD]

Ha - so it turns out the only people doing it are in the Cotswolds - the link I posted at the top is the same guy as @Great In Grass linked; and then @SimonD 's link took me to someone who had borrowed the crimper from the first guy...

https://twitter.com/farmerjamespa/status/934166746054975488

 

[le bon paysan]

If the idea is to produce as the Americans would say a soil armour then flail top it, but you need a disc drill to plant any crops.

 

[New Puritan]

@Dan Powell - yeah but if I used a rotavator or a shallow plough I wouldn't get the kudos of being no-till organic would I? Though obviously I would like to be able to actually grow something I could sell in the trial field.

I did wonder about getting a Bugnot plough, and a couple of people have suggested using a rotavator. Actually I'm tempted. The land I am on is reasonably heavy clay, and there is a fair weed burden. I think careful use of tillage (some subsoiling to correct previous damage, and some light surface work to stale seed bed and incorporate / mix straw and compost) is probably the answer here.

 

[New Puritan]

Just to explain a bit more about where I am coming from with this (probably seemingly aimless) post, I am a tenant on around 50 acres of crap grade 3 land on the south coast. I live half an hour's drive from it, have a full time job and a small child. My landlord lives on site but doesn't like lots of comings and goings from strangers. It's a requirement of the lease that it is certified organic.

This doesn't leave me much room for manoeuvre in terms of trying anything other than very conventional ploughing / power harrowing / drilling for crop establishment. As much as I would like to try mob grazing I am stuck with the flail mower for the time being.

The size of the farm limits what I am willing to spend / invest in machinery. I would quite like to replace the drill with a Moore Unidrill which would give me some more options (I think). I've singled these out as they have been about for ages and occasionally turn up cheaply.

So what I was thinking, is trying to select an appropriate cover crop to put in the autumn after a spring cereal, and then crimp that in the next spring and sow lentils through it. If I could find a low growing cover crop, perhaps the crimping would just set it back enough to allow the lentils through. I need something to intercrop the lentils with to support them a bit, so perhaps the cover crop could do both?

I think it would be very difficult to be no till throughout the rotation in organic, but I'd like to reduce ploughing to perhaps one year in 3, rather than 5 out of 6 years if I could.

 

[Dan Powell]

Tried an ecomat plough (similar to Bugnot) this autumn at about 4 inches. A bit underwelmed with the inversion. May as well be discing or using a ducks foot tine cultivator.

No till organic will end up being like nuclear fusion. Always 30 years away...

 

[New Puritan]

@Dan Powell - you may be right! But I'd like to give it a go, just to prove that to myself. I'm horrified at myself for constantly (almost) falling into the trap of doing things just because that's how they have always been done before. It's not what I got into farming for, but there is a sense of security in just carrying on in the same vein as my landlord (and it provokes less comment, from various parties).

 

[le bon paysan]

The crimper in the video I think is not heavy enough to do the job, needs another 1/2 to 3/4 of a ton on it and will not 'kill' the roots if too green. jmo.

 

[le bon paysan]

http://ipcm.wisc.edu/blog/2017/06/v...er-system-with-early-planted-emerged-soybean/
may be arse backwards but...

 

[New Puritan]

http://ipcm.wisc.edu/blog/2017/06/v...er-system-with-early-planted-emerged-soybean/
may be arse backwards but...

'kin 'ell... I'd love to give that a go, just to see the faces of my neighbours - the guy driving the tractor with the drill going right through the metre high rye; and then crimping it later on. It looks bonkers.

 

[New Puritan]

Actually, the second video linked there does sort of advocate what I want to do - follow a spring cereal with a cover crop and then a legume the next year.

 

[hendrebc]

Interesting thread for someone whos not really interested i arable. I like this approach
Bit of a sheep farmer thing but there is a thing called a bracken basher and it works much the same way as one of those crimper rollers. Might be easier to find one of those but i dont know how well they would work on cover crops i cant remember exactly how they look might not be aggresive enough.
Would a brassica like rape or kale or even turnips work as a cover crop that could be killed by crimp rolling?