clbarclay
Member
- Location
- Worcestershire
This one could last all winter until all the arable farmers have some actual cultivation to distract them.
Cultivating depths
- Thread starter Bman
- Start date
This one could last all winter until all the arable farmers have some actual cultivation to distract them.
People love recreational cultivation. Or at least round here they do.
I did some combo drilling for a neighbour last backend and he insisted on working it down in front of me. Fine by me cos it made it easy going, but if I had of been him I would have had a quick scoot round to fill furrow holes in then done the rest straight on the ploughing.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
min till should be les than 2 inches depth
maxitill is no inversion tillage usually 6 to 8 inches
plough is plough
before the 1970s and big hp tractors ploughing was as shallow as possible often 5 inches
over the years I have done them all for many reasons
ploughing was developed to remove weed seeds and trash so drill coulters could work
with the advent of combines ploughing became the norm as the weed seeds were not removed by the binder and lest in the stack yard but the development of herbicides removed the need for cultivations that helped with weed control
min till and no till could proliferate
if herbicides become so restrictive then ploughing will have to return
I notill now but if herbicides get restricted then ploughing and livestock will both return
the cost will be a lot of iron and fuel 10 times the iron we use now and 3 times the fuel
there will be less worms and wild life in and on the soil
maxitill is no inversion tillage usually 6 to 8 inches
plough is plough
before the 1970s and big hp tractors ploughing was as shallow as possible often 5 inches
over the years I have done them all for many reasons
ploughing was developed to remove weed seeds and trash so drill coulters could work
with the advent of combines ploughing became the norm as the weed seeds were not removed by the binder and lest in the stack yard but the development of herbicides removed the need for cultivations that helped with weed control
min till and no till could proliferate
if herbicides become so restrictive then ploughing will have to return
I notill now but if herbicides get restricted then ploughing and livestock will both return
the cost will be a lot of iron and fuel 10 times the iron we use now and 3 times the fuel
there will be less worms and wild life in and on the soil
John 1594
Member
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
It does make a difference sometimes
compare the beet land we drilled, disced 3 or 4 times, power harrowed, then front press, powerharrow and drill
over the other side of the road, neighbour went in with a C tine straight behind the beet harvester. Twice over with that, then front powerharrow, rear powerharrow and drill
The stuff we drilled that was got ready properly is about 3 weeks ahead, and doest have yellow stripes caused by compaction and not mixing the beet tops in well enough
That's fair enough but I'm talking about going onto ploughed land that can easily be made into a seedbed in one pass with a half decent combi.
SilliamWhale
Member
You plough twice dont you?
John 1594
Member
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
If i feel the need to, havent done any this year as it it was all ploughed in good order and we didnt get a chit of volunteer cereals like we did in 2015
im also conscious not to drown my land with multiple doses of glyphosate every year, unlike some
SilliamWhale
Member
Me too. Once every 18 months with 3l/ha is serious drowning.
John 1594
Member
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
unlike the fashionable "stale seedbed" approach which involves 2/3 applications of 1.5l/ha
SilliamWhale
Member
Not that fussed on that method
I think these multiple passes on 10-20 acres aren't really noticeable from a cost POV especially if using a few old tractors and Womble machinery.
However scale things up to the 2-3000 acre man and all of a sudden you need many multiples of tractors and every knackered cultivator out of every collective sale you can lay your hands on. Then there is the issue of finding drivers for it all.
Obviously one alternative is the Quadtrack......... that's currently being discussed elsewhere so I needn't elaborate any more.
Another option is have a complete rethink............ maybe braver men than me but as the top paragraph pretty much is my system it's not my worry.
Actually, this is the easy part.
For a new Fendt yes.
For a collection of 1980s non air conditioned 30k tractors i reckon you would struggle.
If someone is doing 2-3 stale seedbeds, then I would assume they are doing it for a very good reason good (blackgrass control?), therefore I would say it is necessarily a bad thing (which you post possibly implies). The important point is that they get total kill each time from using an appropriate rate for the conditions and weed sizes they are targeting.
If the stale seedbed just contains a chit of volunteer cereals and blackgrass at 1-2 leaves, then 1.5 l/ha is probably enough. Although resistance to pesticides can develop from repeated use of the same products, or poor application (inc. rate), with a non selective herbicide like glyphosate, it should be easier to get total kill, and therefore there is much less chance of any weeds surviving; also the if used for stale seedbed destruction, then the mechanical operations of cultivation and drilling will help reduce resistance.
- Location
- Cambs Essex
How affective is mechanical destruction on 1 to 2 leaf back grass. I ask this because if we lose round up I can't see the big units who get over the land not ploughing going back to ploughing every thing.
I've rarely done better than 70% control of plants with discs or tines
Mechanical destruction isn't just ploughing. If you can mechanically bury the plants, then yes there will be extremely good control. But a 'lighter' cultivation with discs of tines can still chop the plant or uproot it enough that it will dry out and die- for this conditions for this are more important though, as there can be a risk that the plants may re-root if they don't die quick enough.
In a similar vain, mowing or topping is a method of weed control. But you have to target the growth stage correctly and perform it when all the energy is in the top of the plant, then often there is not enough energy left in the root for the plant to regrow. If you get this wrong with a weed like creeping thistle, then you can make the situation 10x worse
Every little helps
But I assume in this case your not cultivating to control weeds, your cultivating to get a seedbed. But it has the added benefit of giving some weed control. I assume your using glyphosate as you main weed control method?Every little helps
last time I relied on this was where I had a contractor doing all the spraying, so the glyphosate was only pre drilling. I was discing to break down clods on clay horses heads ploughing after fallow on dirty ground. The aim was also to get another chit, repeating the exercise 3 times between July ploughing and October drilling. It made a great seedbed with no blackgrass then a great crop afterwards.
I've also done this on an organic farm to clean up weeds & volunteers after a 3 year ryegrass ley.