Think I'm going to design my own fert system for my 750a - hopefully by spring.
Dark luminous green.
- Thread starter SilliamWhale
- Start date
Think I'm going to design my own fert system for my 750a - hopefully by spring.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Both DAP and MAP are highly soluble and so should be available almost immediately. Another question is how long they will remain available for and this depends on what your soils are like, especially pH.
JNG
Member
- Location
- Leinster, Ireland
It seems wrong to me to apply long in advance of the drill, I would go just in front, if its against the law just dont do it in field beside road. If you apply early and gets wet you could lose the N and if really wet the P from run off. Im no expert tho, I just think DD crops seem to need a little helping hand probably because of no mineralisation and maybe soils a bit colder.
- Location
- Ashford, Kent
You are welcome to come and see mine Clive, long trip I know. I can tell you what not to do!
- Location
- North Kent, UK
Thanks guys, I'm not about to start altering the drill at this stage (got to walk before I can run!). I reckon I should be safe to apply DAP/MAP in early September as its normally pretty dry in this part of Kent, so shouldn't go to waste. I believe legally we can apply 30kg N (at least that's what the osr gets in early September) which would equate to 165kg/ha of DAP which is 76kg P ... @£400/t that's about £66/ha ...is this too much?
You don't need that much - I reckon 100kgs DAP should be plenty and it has bee suggested to me by someone who knows their stuff that maybe even 20kg would be plenty for ww
Thanks Andy - will be in touch after this week as that would be very helpful,I think liquid is the only way forward on a 750a
I don't think those fins would last long on my soil though so would either dribble it onto the firming wheel or maybe run a pipe in or just below the coulter itself is my thinking
- Location
- North Kent, UK
I shall be going through everything with variable rate Tsp this autumn so maybe DAP isn't the right product for me ...perhaps a drop of nitram(other products available) will suffice. 20kg of DAP does seem low, but if you're placing it in the drilling rows then it may be enough.
DAP is much better than TSP which is pretty much a waste of your money
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
From the reading I've done recently I think we need to be careful not to write off TSP completely. What you have written is not always true. According to Kinsey and Neil Fuller, TSP is of limited use in some situations, particularly soils which have a dominant excess of Ca with high pH.
If you have much lower pH and non-calcareous soils it can work. Actually it can also work even in calcareous soils with the right additions. See here:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00257831
and here
http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajb/article/view/57484
- Location
- North Kent, UK
That's quite a sweeping statement Clive. I realise that P can get locked up in certain situations and therefore indices may be misleading. I'm not on alkaline soil. I guess I better do some research into Tsp ...been using it for years.
Been quite a lot said about it on here in a few threads. I used it for years as well, total waste of money when you look deeper into it for most soils however as quoted above there are some (rare) situatuions where it will do a job
I bet after a good read / search you will want to use MAP DAP or fiberphos in the future !
Tractor Boy
Member
- Location
- Suffolk
I was under the impression that one situation where TSP was useful was long term strip till or no till situation where soil organic matter and biology is increasing. The microbes can unlock and release the previously locked up P. I thought this would be the situation you are in Clive.
Not TSP but yes to P - form all the reading I did around this a while ago I could find little good about TSP its P is available for a VERY short period
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Personally I already have about 6000 kg/ha of unavailable P and so adding another 50kg/ha here and there to this reserve isn't much help. Better to add some elemental S to release the P that's already locked up in the soil or at least add something that will add to the available fraction like MAP. Some claim that TSP will lock up in 48hrs which is obviously not much help.
marco
Member
- Location
- tipperary, ireland
what's your idea for the metering system clive? solid or liquid?
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
I am sure that fertiliser take time to be available to the crop so putting dap on in august is not be too early
putting it on post drilling may be too late
when straw burning was banned using n in the back end was used to balance the c/n ratio peter Hepworth from Yorkshire used pig muck when he incorporated straw
when we used very hi n rates on rape 300kg the residue made wheat crop look very green we also had dryer summers so the n stayed near the surface and wet condition denitrification was low
if bg is not a big problem notill early drilling (pre 15 September)would get wheat off to an early start negating the need for early n but where straw is left and second wheats planted some early n( pre drilling) would be of benefit as was practiced in the 70s/80s the first n was also applied in january all proven by trials back then this is not now deemed to be environmently good so the trials work is hidden away and not being tested with modern systems and climate may be we should relook at this work that was done when yealds first hit 4 tonne per acre
putting it on post drilling may be too late
when straw burning was banned using n in the back end was used to balance the c/n ratio peter Hepworth from Yorkshire used pig muck when he incorporated straw
when we used very hi n rates on rape 300kg the residue made wheat crop look very green we also had dryer summers so the n stayed near the surface and wet condition denitrification was low
if bg is not a big problem notill early drilling (pre 15 September)would get wheat off to an early start negating the need for early n but where straw is left and second wheats planted some early n( pre drilling) would be of benefit as was practiced in the 70s/80s the first n was also applied in january all proven by trials back then this is not now deemed to be environmently good so the trials work is hidden away and not being tested with modern systems and climate may be we should relook at this work that was done when yealds first hit 4 tonne per acre
- Location
- Hertfordshire
Here's our "Claydon -v- conventional" trial. This is spring barley planted into over wintered WW stubble. The green bit in the middle is the tilled and conventionally drilled plot and the two poor bits either side are the Claydon-drilled plots.
It was the second year of using a Claydon on those areas. First year (WW) there was little difference in yields - Claydon maybe shaded it, just.
This year, as you can see, it will be a different story.
I think soil temp played a big part, I suspect the moved land warmed up quicker. They were both drilled at the same time.
Alistair McLaren
Member
- Location
- Central West NSW
JNG
Member
- Location
- Leinster, Ireland
Ruminant, can you tell us what conventional is in that situation and the drilling details, date/rate etc? Big difference there. I have been watching our Claydon S Barley very closely compared to our neighbours min tilled field not far away, his definately got off to a flying start and our stuttered through the first 6 weeks with me a bit unhappy. but ours is now looking better and has a much more even colour than most crops around, has filled out very well and Im happy it will do well. Ill take a few photos later. Just a few thin patches from Wireworm but less than 1% of the field at a guess.