I have come to similar conclusion so do have tine and disc drills now - expecting perfection from one machine in every situation is asking a lot IMO and x2 used drills cost less than 1 new one
DD barley
- Thread starter SilliamWhale
- Start date
I have come to similar conclusion so do have tine and disc drills now - expecting perfection from one machine in every situation is asking a lot IMO and x2 used drills cost less than 1 new one
Totally agree, I would rather have to much drilling capacity than anything else. I also want to chop everything every year but have found that some fields can have organic matter overload. (Especially in the start when soil microbes are not quite so active) so bailing and removing can be sometimes be beneficial to some following crops.
What we are planning next year is to plant stubble turnips after s wheat graze lightly all winter, then plant spring barley in the spring when it's warmed up. It's a sort of cover crop compromise but is easier to manage.
SilliamWhale
Member
I don't really think its that much an issue of the drill to be honest. WW and SW with the 750 is perfect. I do have bits of cultivator and subsoilers about which can do a job if need be but obviously prefer to DD. In one the fields of barley we had a decent cover crop of failed rape and spilled rape from two years before giving quite a green carpet overwinter.
I would have a Dale but definitely can't afford one at the moment but I am wondering if it possible to make something up using a chisel plow or stubble cultivator at 1-2" and using one of Jims delimbe appliators. But for that its just as easy to do a light pass with a cultivator and then drill with the 750 if I think there could be trouble ahead for the odd spring crop.
On the flipside HJ and BSH both have Aitchisons for their spring barley and sounds like they are a bit disappointed too, so its probably not just about the drill.
p.s. would you Claydon users say you have had universally good spring barley establishment ?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
The Ruminant didn't seem so happy with his Claydon barley IIRC
Most dale users I have spoken to seem happy with spring establishment, most seemed to place some seedbed fert
So I guess the conclusion there is its seedbed fert and not the tine that helps ??
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Clive, can you remind me what rate of DAP you put down?
200kgs
Quite high and more P than I would have thought necessary but it was relatively cheap N at the time
It has been suggested to me that even 20kg might be enough to get things started ?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
WOW that's a LOT of placed fertiliser isn't it? I thought that was a broadcast rate
It's a lot but and more than I planned but it was also 50% of my N for that crop the rest being top dressed latter. I got a great deal on it so wanted to use the cheaper n vs the more expensive liquid I had in my tank at the time
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Fair enough if you cut back on your main N.
SilliamWhale
Member
htj
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion
To be honest, I'm not really disappointed with the spring barley, it was just a comment about germination and emergence. On my acreage the drill is doing a good enough job. WW is looking very good. Ask the agronomist Will! We have the same one!
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
We have only two fields of spring barley drilled with the Claydon. They looked a little variable down the row but have filled out reasonably well.
SilliamWhale
Member
Looks excellent Feldspar -big heads. what variety?
How are you getting on with the albrecht comparisions? Not heard much lately or have you just done it on some select crops?
How are you getting on with the albrecht comparisions? Not heard much lately or have you just done it on some select crops?
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I'll check the variety - pictures were taken on a farm that is contracted for us. Although the crop is thinner than some of our conventionally established spring barley the heads are noticeably bigger (see picture below for conv. established - not very clear but best I have to hand) and look nearer to some of our winter barley and the grains much fuller at the moment. I think a lot of the difference stems from the ability of the long term DDed ground to allow much easier rooting. I dug up the field in the picture below and the top layer is very tight with poor structure which has hindered rooting and moisture uptake quite a bit.
Haven't done much more on the Albrecht stuff. Walked round some of the trials with Ian Robertson from Glenside and he thought he could see a noticeable difference in biomass and a much more even crop in the spring barley trial (the above picture shows the untreated part of the field). I only did small areas in some fields to keep the cost down. Ian's point was that by eye you couldn't see 10-20% differences in biomass and so even though Mg levels (for example) might not appear different in the tissue samples there might be an imperceptible difference in biomass creating a dilution effect. Need to get our telemetry sorted on the combine to be able to measure the results properly - Agco yield mapping isn't that easy to drive.
Haven't done much more on the Albrecht stuff. Walked round some of the trials with Ian Robertson from Glenside and he thought he could see a noticeable difference in biomass and a much more even crop in the spring barley trial (the above picture shows the untreated part of the field). I only did small areas in some fields to keep the cost down. Ian's point was that by eye you couldn't see 10-20% differences in biomass and so even though Mg levels (for example) might not appear different in the tissue samples there might be an imperceptible difference in biomass creating a dilution effect. Need to get our telemetry sorted on the combine to be able to measure the results properly - Agco yield mapping isn't that easy to drive.
JNG
Member
- Location
- Leinster, Ireland
Feldspar, Have you any personal comments on that explanation from Glenside, Does not sound too convincing to me!
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I agree with the inability of the human eye to pick out small difference in biomass. A similar effect is supposed to occur when trying to spot striping due to incorrect granular fertiliser application - i.e. if you can see striping there is at least a 20% variation in application rates.
It is also true that, if the Mg levels (as measured in mol/g or some similar unit) are equal in the tissue tests of trial versus control, but also that the trial has a higher biomass (i.e. kg of biomass per ha), then the "crop" (as defined by the collective plant mass) contains greater amount of Mg. Also it should be that a greater biomass crop is likely to have more ears / sq m and possibly a higher yield. This would mean that, although the kieserite had no effect on plant Mg concentrations, it might still produce a yield response. As I said I think the spring barley plot is the only one that you could claim a visual difference between trial and control.
It is also true that, if the Mg levels (as measured in mol/g or some similar unit) are equal in the tissue tests of trial versus control, but also that the trial has a higher biomass (i.e. kg of biomass per ha), then the "crop" (as defined by the collective plant mass) contains greater amount of Mg. Also it should be that a greater biomass crop is likely to have more ears / sq m and possibly a higher yield. This would mean that, although the kieserite had no effect on plant Mg concentrations, it might still produce a yield response. As I said I think the spring barley plot is the only one that you could claim a visual difference between trial and control.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
SilliamWhale
Member
anyone remember me whinging about this?
Its done better than expected. Nearer 3t to the acre than 2.5t which is quite a surprise. I think the cold spring made it look especially poor but of course three hot weeks and slightly better moisture retention helped it along. I'm more persuaded sometimes that the early burst of N and lush growth when conv. established crops look great is misleading for cereals, potentially even negative if you consider the natural way of things (eg crops develop slowly with N bursts' in natural cycles)
Soil is lovely underneath. Those hot dry weeks in July (the first for about 3-4 years here) did a bit of good.