De-banking the countryside

[Steevo]

First there was this:

Hunts banned from taking card payments in latest example of de-banking​

SumUp machines turned off during fundraisers after clubs were being placed on list of restricted businesses

ByHayley Dixon, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT2 August 2023 • 8:32pm

The move has left hunts unable to accept credit or debit cards from customers CREDIT: Jacob King/PA
Hunts have been banned from taking card payments by a major financial services firm in the latest example of de-banking.
SumUp, a card reader provider, has included “hunting clubs/activities” on its list of “restricted businesses” alongside “illegal or legally questionable businesses and products”, escort services and fortune tellers.
A number of hunts have had their machines switched off during fundraising events, potentially losing thousands of pounds, The Telegraph can reveal.
Companies linked to shooting are also targeted as “guns, firearms, airsoft guns, munitions sale and distribution” are on the blacklist.
Card readers are used to take payments at events and the move means the hunts are unable to accept credit or debit cards from their customers.
The restrictions have been described as a form of discrimination against rural communities who are “effectively treated as criminals” and have led to calls for an immediate investigation into the financial services industry.

De-banking first emerged when Nigel Farage had his Coutts accounts closed because of his political views CREDIT: Alex Brandon/AP
It comes amid concerns about the extent of the banking scandal that first emerged when Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, had his Coutts accounts closed because of his political views.
Greg Smith MP, who sits on the all-party parliamentary group on fair business banking, told The Telegraph: “The Farage case of political de-banking has only just blown the tip off the iceberg and it is now quite clear that there is widespread de-banking going on for perfect legitimate and legal activities, of which hunts are one.
“There needs to be a much wider interrogation into the entire bank and financial services system in the UK to make sure that people are not discriminating against businesses carrying out perfectly legitimate businesses.”
The Oakley Hunt was among those to discover an issue when its card machine was cut off half way through their point-to-point meeting in Northamptonshire in March. It is the biggest event in their calendar and the shutdown could have cost them thousands.
When the hunt questioned the decision, SumUp said “after a thorough review of your profile we will not be able to provide you with our services”.
Nigel Farage interview puff
It had been using the service for about a year, having registered as the hunt supporters club and passed the vetting procedures, The Telegraph understands.
The Oakley, which has since been provided with a card reader by their bank, later discovered that hunts were on SumUp’s restricted business list.
Polly Portwin, director of the campaign for hunting at the Countryside Alliance, said that it was one of “a number of incidents where events organised by hunts – many of which were raising money for charitable causes – had their accounts suspended mid-way through fundraising, leaving organisers without any means to collect payment and therefore having an impact on the donations subsequently made to good causes”.
She added: “It is disgraceful that members of rural communities and those who take part in a lawful activity can be discriminated against in this way and effectively treated as criminals.”
Mr Farage said that since launching his campaign to establish the extent of the “national scandal” of de-banking he had received a number of complaints about SumUp.

‘Great danger to society’​

“These banks and financial services companies are completely out of control,” Mr Farage told The Telegraph. “They are starting to dictate how we can spend our money and what we can do.
“This is a highly political industry which is now a great danger to society. This is happening right through our financial system, and we need to turn the tide.”
SumUp, which says that it has four million business customers, charges a one-off cost for a card payment reader of between £39 and £139 and a transaction fee of 1.69 per cent.
Its restricted businesses also include airlines, political organisations, “get rich quick” merchants and pornography companies. It says it will provide services for not-for-profit companies as long as their services are in “no way be used for raising funds in violation of financial sanction regime regulations, including but not limited to financing terrorism”.
When asked about the ban on hunts, a spokesman said: “SumUp operates under strict requirements imposed by the financial regulator, the card schemes, and our acquiring banks, who we rely on to operate our payment services.
“Therefore, we have guidelines from these external organisations on the types of business that we cannot support, which are clearly defined on our website. Our licence is not unlimited and we cannot support every business model. New restricted categories may be added depending on our partner’s policies.”
They said that they “cannot comment on the specific details of a merchant’s situation” because of GDPR and privacy rules.
However, the named card providers Visa, Mastercard and American Express have said that the restrictions have not been imposed by them as they do not restrict legal activities.
American Express is also listed by SumUp as one of their three “acquiring” banks which processes the transactions. A spokesman said the credit card company said it “does not make customer decisions on the basis of legally held personal or political views”.
A second acquiring bank, EVO Payments International GmbH, said it no longer worked with the company while the third, First Data Europe Limited which is now known as Fiserv, did not respond to requests for comment.
The Financial Conduct Authority has nothing in its Payment Services Regulations to dictate the type of business a payment service provider can work with.
Rishi Sunak has previously said that de-banking is “wrong” and that “no one should be barred from using basic services for their political views”.
Mr Smith, said: “The Government was really strong on their reaction to politicians being de-banked, but that is clearly not where this story ends, this is not about Mr Farage.
“This now needs to be properly investigated as there are a lot of normal people out there who have been de-banked but don’t have their own television show to highlight what has happened to them.”
A HM Treasury spokesman said: “Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of our democracy, and it must be respected.
“That’s why we are changing the regulations so payment service providers must give a reason for closing an account or service, and extend the time needed to close an account to 90 days.
“This protects the rights of customers – providing real transparency, time to appeal and making it a much fairer playing field.”

Hunts banned from taking card payments in latest example of de-banking

SumUp machines turned off during fundraisers after clubs were being placed on list of restricted businesses

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Steevo]

Then there was this:

Gun clubs' accounts shut as banks 'cancel the countryside'​

Firms accused of treating shooting groups 'like criminals' as latest example of de-banking increases pressure for ministers to take action

ByHayley Dixon, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT and Dominic Penna, POLITICAL REPORTER3 August 2023 • 9:46pm

Banks are trying to “cancel the countryside”, a senior MP has said, as The Telegraph can reveal gun clubs are the latest victim of de-banking.
A third of shooting businesses have had their accounts suddenly closed down, research has shown, with major high street banks including HSBC, Barclays, Lloyds and NatWest among those named as having refused accounts or credit to businesses linked to the rural pursuit.
It comes after The Telegraph revealed that hunts have been banned from taking card payments through major financial services firm SumUp.
The revelations have led to concern from former ministers and campaign groups that rural businesses are being unfairly targeted and “treated like criminals”.
Sir Robert Goodwill, the Tory chairman of the environment committee and a former Defra minister, said: “Shooting is not only a perfectly legal act, it contributes tremendously to management of the rural environment and habitats for wildlife.
“They’re de-banking people for conducting an entirely lawful and in my view environmentally positive undertaking and trying to cancel the countryside and rural way of life. This is an outrageous infringement of landowners’ rights to do whatever they wish with their land. It’s all becoming a little bit Big Brother.”
The scandal of de-banking first hit the headlines when it emerged that Coutts had closed the account of Nigel Farage because of his political views and there has now been a deluge of claims about accounts being shut down.

A threat to free speech​

Jeremy Hunt, the Chancellor, told broadcasters on Thursday that de-banking was a threat to free speech and could be more widespread than had been thought.
“I’m worried that it may exist more than we had thought,” he said. “And the reason I’m worried is because free speech is a fundamental human right… In today’s society you need a bank account to function and so a threat to be de-banked, as the word is now widely used, is a threat to your right to express your opinions.”
He announced that he had written to the Financial Conduct Authority and the regulator was “going to urgently investigate how widespread this practice is, and put a stop to it”.
“Having your bank account removed because of your political views is very clearly against the law – it shouldn’t be happening,” he said.
The FCA said it would be asking major banks and building societies to provide data on the number of account closures and the reasons behind them over the coming month.
Mr Hunt said that the Government would decide if any further action was needed after that investigation.
The British Association of Shooting and Conservation (BASC) has written to the Treasury warning that shooting businesses have been experiencing issues for a number of years and it called for the industry to be included in any review of de-banking.

‘A rottenness at the heart of banking’​

Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg, a former business secretary, said: “It seems to me that Nigel has exposed a rottenness at the heart of banking, that they have decided to impose their political views on their customers who are carrying out lawful activities.
“As they were bailed out by all taxpayers after the banking crisis in 2008, they ought to provide services to all lawful businesses and not apply their warped view of morality.
“The whole thing seems to be out of control. Woke metropolitan types seem to be imposing their minority view of the world on the rest of society, and this is troubling in a democracy.”
Research sent by BASC to Andrew Griffith MP, the economic secretary to the Treasury, showed that 37 per cent of shooting clubs, syndicates and trade organisations had experienced the sudden closure of an account, with trade most likely to be impacted.
Of those, 33 per cent said that the account was closed by HSBC, 22 per cent by Barclays and 6 per cent by NatWest.
Asked about the findings, Mr Griffith, told The Telegraph: “Parliament has decided that country sports remain a lawful activity. Representing a rural constituency, I know that they can make a significant contribution to local economies and maintaining the countryside.
“The Government has made clear that customers must be given clear and transparent reasons for closing an account or service as well as increasing the notice period. Banks must not ‘hide’ behind financial regulations.”

Two thirds had difficulty opening account​

The BASC survey, first published last year, also showed that 65 per cent of respondents reported difficulties opening an account, most commonly with Lloyds (38 per cent), followed by HSBC (35 per cent) and NatWest and Barclays (32 per cent).
Almost a third indicated that they had had difficulty obtaining credit. Across the survey, which had 320 responses from the industry, Barclays and HSBC were mentioned most frequently alongside all reported difficulties.
The most common reason given by the banks to explain the difficulties was that it was “policy not to associate/work with anyone connected to firearms”.
Others were told “that my business fits into the categories: High risk and limited appetite businesses” and one said that they were forced to sign documents saying that they would not “engage in the international arms trade”.
One respondent said “within weeks of discovering my company was involved in shooting, [bank staff] summarily closed all my personal and business accounts (six accounts) and provided no reason. All accounts had been in credit and had been in good order for more than 20 years.”
Dr Conor O’Gorman, BASC’s head of policy and campaigns, said: “Banks should not be arbitrarily shutting down business accounts or refusing to open accounts on a bank manager’s whim and with no explanation given. Shooting sports are a lawful activity and we should not be treated as potential criminals by the banking sector.”

‘Appalling conduct’​

Dame Priti Patel, the former home secretary, said: “This is another example of where Britain’s banks are politically compromised. Banks need to get back to providing access to financial services and stay away from passing political judgement as to who can bank with them.
“Treasury ministers have an opportunity to reform the appalling and degrading conduct led by the banking echelons and stand up for Britain’s small businesses and the self-employed who the banks have attempted to shut down.”
A Barclays spokesman said that it complied “with our legal and regulatory obligations” and it would “only withdraw banking services from an individual or business in exceptional circumstances”.
He added: “We support the Government’s initiatives to standardise the approach across banks, including non-exclusion on the basis of political views or beliefs.”
A NatWest spokesman said it provided “banking services to businesses, clubs and societies involved in shooting, subject to appropriate legal, licensing and due diligence requirements being met by the customer”.
A spokesman for HSBC UK Commercial Bank said that it worked with legitimate shooting businesses, adding: “We comply with all legal and regulatory requirements. Decisions on customer accounts are always the subject of careful consideration and are never taken due to the legal, political, or personal views of a customer.”
Lloyds did not respond to a request for comment.

Gun clubs' accounts shut as banks 'cancel the countryside'

Firms accused of treating shooting groups 'like criminals' as latest example of de-banking increases pressure for ministers to take action

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[010101]

There is to my mind a historic link between company profit and number of customers.
I find it a Brave New World in which a "public company" can expect shareholders to support its capital base whilst it dictates political agendas that reduce its customer numbers and potential profit.
Potential profit must be from political alignment not customer satisfaction.
This is not the version of capitalism our grandparents enjoyed.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I think we are under attack or it certainly feels like that to me anyway

First they debanked hunts. Farmers will be next​

The rural way of life is now considered borderline criminal by fashionable, metropolitan opinion
JAMIE BLACKETT4 August 2023 • 7:00am

The Duke of Buccleuch Foxhounds meet at Wilton Burn, just outside the Scottish Borders town of Hawick CREDIT: Chris Strickland

It was perhaps inevitable that, when we scrutinised the debanking scandal, we would meet the sneering metropolitan elite’s contempt for the countryside. Evidence has now emerged of hunts being debanked – banned from taking card payments by SumUp, the card reader provider of choice (until now?) of stallholders and other outdoor businesses.
Some faceless functionary in a glass box included “hunting clubs/activities” on its list of “restricted businesses”, alongside “illegal or legally questionable businesses” such as escort services. The functionary – or maybe it was a robot, now there’s a scary thought – probably considered that this decision was perfectly natural.
Indeed, the rural way of life stereotyped by foxhunting is now considered almost criminal in some quarters. It is actually a tenet of the eco-modernist doctrine, espoused by out-of-touch fruitcakes, that we should abandon the countryside to the wolves and beavers and give up anything so old-fashioned as producing food.


We have been slow to spot this threat in the UK. It took woke bank Coutts to make the schoolboy error of picking on Nigel Farage to wake us all up. Something must now change.
Just as centuries ago we insisted on separation of powers between church and state to protect our freedoms, there needs to be a de-politicisation of the banking system for the same reason. And we should be dismissive of the agenda to abolish cash – the last lifeline of rural communities under attack.
It also serves to underline how far the othering of the hunting community has come. It was nearly 50 years ago that, aged 10, I set off on my pony for my first day’s hunting under the watchful eye of the masters. I was in good hands – one was the wife of a High Court judge and mother of a future attorney general, the other a local police inspector.
Since then, I have hunted with princes and many other judges and policemen and women, as well as all sorts of rural folk, from duchesses to dustmen. We used to joke that, if we fell off, we had a doctor, a nurse, an undertaker and a priest in the hunting field to administer to us.


Shockingly all these people were marginalised by the Hunting Acts – perhaps, with hindsight, because the eco-fanatical Left correctly identified hunting as a powerful glue that held the fabric of rural society together, and therefore a culture that had to be smashed if they were to promote their own version of virtuous living.
The case against hunting – something we regarded as perfectly normal for at least 20 millennia – has never been strong. Sir Roger Scruton’s ethical judgment still stands: “If it is true, as I believe, that the fox is better served by hunting than by any other form of cull, and that all rival practices expose him to far more suffering, then it is not just permissible to hunt, but morally right.”
Since the hunting ban, foxes may even have endured more suffering from “rival practices”. An open-minded society that is now far more ecologically literate should be clamouring for the reinstatement of the one form of fox control – without apex predators such as wolves – that avoids wounding and follows the laws of natural selection.
Yet, after 13 years under Conservative prime ministers, fox hunting remains criminalised. Some rural activists, resigned to defeat, now spend their time defending trail hunting – an obviously flawed activity that was only ever designed as a stop-gap until the illiberal law was overturned by a Tory government.
And the rift between town and country has widened further as rural life is besieged by wild campers, right-to-roamers, animal rights extremists, and hunt saboteurs, seemingly encouraged in their beliefs by urban talking-head types and now the banking system.
The direction of travel is all too clear. I can foresee a time when I, too, may go to a cashpoint and find my account closed. An unrepentant dairy farmer and former hunt chairman with a lengthy abstract of evidence of unacceptable thought-crime, documented in books and Daily Telegraph articles attacking net zero, veganism and every other type of ism, might I be cancelled during the Starmer government that is predicted by the bookies?
And what is to stop beef and dairy farmers in general from being deemed “restricted businesses” by any series of woke organisations, given the fashionable attacks on eating meat?
There is still time. Since I wrote in these pages in March, speculating that the countryside had had enough and suggesting that a revolt was needed along the lines of the glorious revolution achieved recently in the Netherlands by the BBB (Farmer-Citizen Party), my inbox has been full of letters of support from people who feel disenfranchised.
We need to banish PC authoritarianism and cry freedom! Is anyone in this supposedly conservative Government listening?

---

Jamie Blackett is a farmer and the author of Red Rag to a Bull and Land of Milk and Honey (Quiller)

 

[robs1]

How soon before fishing lakes get the same treatment then perhaps livestock producers that sell direct, perhaps then some who said they didn't care about NF getting debanked might not be so relaxed .

 

[serf]

This is where we are heading regardless of your trade ,
everyone on electronic currency ,
everyone controlled !
Maybe the tin hat brigade have been correct all along .....

 

[Highland Mule]

Gun clubs and hunts. Both divisive hobbies that may well take place in the countryside but don’t actually align with agriculture that much. I wouldn’t be that bothered if both were banned, tbh. Farming would be the better in many ways if it didn’t associate itself with entitled nobs and wannabe soldiers.

 

[No wot]

Gun clubs and hunts. Both divisive hobbies that may well take place in the countryside but don’t actually align with agriculture that much. I wouldn’t be that bothered if both were banned, tbh. Farming would be the better in many ways if it didn’t associate itself with entitled nobs and wannabe soldiers.

But it could be the tip of the iceberg , all well and good if initially it doesn't effect you , but when it does it will be to late , where the f##k is this country heading

 

[Punch]

A dairy farmer I know was told last Autumn that the bank was monitoring his social media posts.
They won’t rely on big brother from 1984 if the banks can do it for them

 

[yin ewe]

Gun clubs and hunts. Both divisive hobbies that may well take place in the countryside but don’t actually align with agriculture that much. I wouldn’t be that bothered if both were banned, tbh. Farming would be the better in many ways if it didn’t associate itself with entitled nobs and wannabe soldiers.

The question is not whether you like hunts and gun clubs or not, but do they deserve to be debanked or not?

Quite a lot of farmers round here use the local hunt kennels for their deadstock, although you must allow them access to your land. It's a lot cheaper than the fallen stock scheme but they get their hounds fed for very little, so the arrangement works both ways.

 

[BrianV]

Gun clubs and hunts. Both divisive hobbies that may well take place in the countryside but don’t actually align with agriculture that much. I wouldn’t be that bothered if both were banned, tbh. Farming would be the better in many ways if it didn’t associate itself with entitled nobs and wannabe soldiers.

Why doesn't that surprise me & there's you a wanna be soldier.

 

[PSQ]

Gun clubs and hunts. Both divisive hobbies that may well take place in the countryside but don’t actually align with agriculture that much. I wouldn’t be that bothered if both were banned, tbh. Farming would be the better in many ways if it didn’t associate itself with entitled nobs and wannabe soldiers.

The problem being that you are 1 step away from being added to that list as an 'animal murderer', 'polluter' and 'environment destroyer'.

See, it's easy to point the finger and throw around lazy labels, until those more pious point the finger at you.
What we are looking at is the rise of a new Puritanism, where eventually not even the self proclaimed 'pure' will be spared.

 

[Still Farming]

And STILL the cash fraternity carry on and genuine persons are persecuted again.

 

[Highland Mule]

But it could be the tip of the iceberg , all well and good if initially it doesn't effect you , but when it does it will be to late , where the f##k is this country heading

I don’t consider myself in that same iceberg, sorry. I’d probably vote for the banning of killing for sport, certainly am happy to restrict access to guns to those who need rather than those who want.

do they deserve to be debanked or not?

Insofar that a bank is a commercial organisation, I’d support them to decide who they wish to trade with just as I do with my suppliers and customers. Just as one decides not to deal, another will take up the reins, for sure.

The problem being that you are 1 step away from being added to that list as an 'animal murderer', 'polluter' and 'environment destroyer'.

I already am by some, and I’m happy to debate with them and do so regularly. The vocal majority want my trade though, and I don’t see that changing ever - I know my customers and they know me.

 

[yin ewe]

Insofar that a bank is a commercial organisation, I’d support them to decide who they wish to trade with just as I do with my suppliers and customers. Just as one decides not to deal, another will take up the reins, for sure.

But banks are owned by many shareholders, not by an individual, therefore imo the employees of the bank should not be allowed to decide who the bank deals with.
The company I work for is owned by an individual so he has right to refuse a service in my opinion, as an employee I don't believe I have that right.

 

[Bogweevil]

A rebrand should sort it, so ‘Mudshire hunt’ no longer but ‘Reynolds Flower Arranging Circle’

 

[serf]

But it could be the tip of the iceberg , all well and good if initially it doesn't effect you , but when it does it will be to late , where the f##k is this country heading

Yep , you may casually say oh wtf if so and so is black listed but they are the buffer for the next " bogey man " down the list until they are all picked off and cancelled !

Be carefull what you wish for ....

 

[Steevo]

Yep , you may casually say oh wtf if so and so is black listed but they are the buffer for the next " bogey man " down the list until they are all picked off and cancelled !

Be carefull what you wish for ....

Careful....the woke police will be after you!

‘Black market’ is racist phrase and should not be used, say bank leaders

Tory MP Nigel Mills calls guidance issued by UK Finance, which suggests using ‘illegal market’ instead, ‘woke nonsense’

t3.emails.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Cvx1170]

 

[serf]

A dairy farmer I know was told last Autumn that the bank was monitoring his social media posts.
They won’t rely on big brother from 1984 if the banks can do it for them

I never trust Google and always use duck duck go because it's like having someone on Ur case all the time trying to flog you something or pester you. But the maps on your phone are all linked in some how and it's a job to get away from the basturds!