Designing a cover crop

[Baling Hay]

Can mustard be grazed?

 

[Great In Grass]

Why not sow Brown Mustard, excellent biofumigation properties and unlike white mustard it is winter hardy, a little more expensive though.

 

[neilo]

On a bit of a tangent, as not really a cover crop if grazed(?), how much does Winter Vetch grow when planted in September? Would it make a viable, non-brassica fodder crop for late winter grazing? Or what about as a simple mix with stubble turnips & rape?

Never heard of Winter Vetches before.

 

[JNG]

I suppose with drilling a late drilled autumn cereal into mustard you wouldn't even need to spray it off as the frost would kill it?

Chances are there will be a bit more than mustard there tho. Id be a bit worried about the mustard sheltering a few other weeds that might need to be cleaned up, ie grass weeds. Balancing cover cropping with some other husbandry practices eg stale seedbeds is a concern for me.

 

[BSH]

yes that's right

 

[Pedders]

On a bit of a tangent, as not really a cover crop if grazed(?), how much does Winter Vetch grow when planted in September? Would it make a viable, non-brassica fodder crop for late winter grazing? Or what about as a simple mix with stubble turnips & rape?

Never heard of Winter Vetches before.

there are winter vetches but like all vetches seed V expensive ...not much will grow well planted in september ...italian ryegrass or forage rye ...maybe mustard but that wont give much grazing ..the Americans have a legume they call Austrian winter peas but have to say can't find out much about it in the UK

 

[neilo]

there are winter vetches but like all vetches seed V expensive ...not much will grow well planted in september ...italian ryegrass or forage rye ...maybe mustard but that wont give much grazing ..the Americans have a legume they call Austrian winter peas but have to say can't find out much about it in the UK

Thanks @Pedders I haven't missed much then.

 

[BSH]

On a bit of a tangent, as not really a cover crop if grazed(?), how much does Winter Vetch grow when planted in September? Would it make a viable, non-brassica fodder crop for late winter grazing? Or what about as a simple mix with stubble turnips & rape?

Never heard of Winter Vetches before.

I understood that winter Tares? (vetches)were a regular part of the rotation back in the day. Not sure when they were planted, but they were grown for sheep I guess. As Pedders says though, I think the seed is prohibitively expensive.

 

[Great In Grass]

We sell quite a large amount of winter vetch mostly as a companion crop to Winter Wheat to be taken as wholecrop and it is very successful. At the moment it's around the £1.75/kilo mark, delivered (the vetch that is).

 

[dontknowanything]

The BASE talks recently got me thinking again about mixes, and phacelia.

I quite like the look of the Pedders French mix, although it is relatively expensive.

Sunflowers
Green Peas
White Peas
Maple Peas
Vetch
Phacelia

My biggest problem with this would be lack of seed numbers/ha.

So I thought it would be fairly cheap to add

Oats
Linseed
Fodder Radish

Thoughts?

 

[Baling Hay]

The BASE talks recently got me thinking again about mixes, and phacelia.

I quite like the look of the Pedders French mix, although it is relatively expensive.

Sunflowers
Green Peas
White Peas
Maple Peas
Vetch
Phacelia

My biggest problem with this would be lack of seed numbers/ha.

So I thought it would be fairly cheap to add

Oats
Linseed
Fodder Radish

Thoughts?

Do you really need that many peas in the mix?

 

[dontknowanything]

Do you really need that many peas in the mix?

Depends on what rate they are going in at... @Pedders

 

[JNG]

The BASE talks recently got me thinking again about mixes, and phacelia.

I quite like the look of the Pedders French mix, although it is relatively expensive.

Sunflowers
Green Peas
White Peas
Maple Peas
Vetch
Phacelia

My biggest problem with this would be lack of seed numbers/ha.

So I thought it would be fairly cheap to add

Oats
Linseed
Fodder Radish

Thoughts?

You are right I think, below are a few pics of that mix drilled end Aug but at 40kg/ha rather than the planned 50kg/ha, mainly because I tried to get it to stretch due to change of plans with fields etc. At that drilling date maybe 60kg/ha would be better but if planted early Aug the Vetch etc will bulk out a lot more. In pictures below remember the sunflower which was plentyfull have died away at the first hint of frost so it looks less bulky than 3 weeks ago. Bit pricey but Im thinking now to use it for diversity, (sunflower/phacelia) but bulk it with home saved linseed/beans/peas or maybe Oats where Oats not the following crop which they are this year.

 

[JNG]

Do you really need that many peas in the mix?

What harm peas, bring plenty to the party, ours in picks above have plenty of nodules on roots. no idea why the three types, have to ask @Pedders that. If drilled earlier I wonder about a bit of Crimson clover or similar or tick beans just for variation.

 

[RBM]

Interesting point brought up with regard to aleopathy and the effect of some species to the planned crop. A bit of careful thinking needed at times!

 

[dontknowanything]

Interesting point brought up with regard to aleopathy and the effect of some species to the planned crop. A bit of careful thinking needed at times!

Although F Thomas did say he thought a lot of times that allelopathy is blamed when really the problem is lack of N

 

[RBM]

Although F Thomas did say he thought a lot of times that allelopathy is blamed when really the problem is lack of N

Must of missed that bit!

 

[Andy Howard]

Although F Thomas did say he thought a lot of times that allelopathy is blamed when really the problem is lack of N

Also lack of water is blamed when it is lack of N

 

[York]

not only lack of:
- water
- N
- timing of planting. everyday more between harvest & planting of the cover crop is a lost day. Not only on lost potential grotz but even more lost water. We see a striking difference in establishment quality between drilling right at the "tail of the combine" and 3 days later.
but a lot of times "poor quality" of seed placement. What ever this includes.
Point is that a successful cover crop needs the same attention, quality of workmanship etc. than a main crop. As lousier you deal the cover crop as poorer will be your chance to have a good main crop and a pay of off the cover crop.
York-Th.

 

[Jim Bullock]

not only lack of:
- water
- N
- timing of planting. everyday more between harvest & planting of the cover crop is a lost day. Not only on lost potential grotz but even more lost water. We see a striking difference in establishment quality between drilling right at the "tail of the combine" and 3 days later.
but a lot of times "poor quality" of seed placement. What ever this includes.
Point is that a successful cover crop needs the same attention, quality of workmanship etc. than a main crop. As lousier you deal the cover crop as poorer will be your chance to have a good main crop and a pay of off the cover crop.
York-Th.

I agree with you York that a cover crop needs to be treated like a cash crop, especially when the seed costs can exceed what you might be paying for say winter wheat seed. We used to just cultivate and broadcast (mustard/phacelia) sometimes it grew sometimes it didn't. This year we drilled what few cover crops we have grown and even added a bit of fertiliser...We have grown quite a bit of biomass as a result. If we are going "to do cover-crops" we will have to treat them as a crop...