Diesel waxing

[Flasheart]

My guess is you have water in your filters which will freeze far sooner than diesel, it's got to be bloody cold to wax diesel. Change your filters before starting to add stuff to the fuel.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Perhaps some 1/8” or 8mm Yorkshire copper tube formed into a cylindrical coil small enough to pass through tank opening and long enough to reach the depths of tank where wax crystals would settle out. Then pump through hot water.

Might be a safer in bet a large tank of flammable liquid than a direct electric element (wine or fish tank heater)?

http://r.ebay.com/SBWKaM

 

[Bloders]

We used to add 10% kero through the 70-90s never had any issues. I would be amazed if 10 % would have any effect on common rail, but would not put my name to it

since the reduction in suphur in diesel, may people have issues with the lubricity of standard diesel. Youd be brave (foolish is the word id like to use) to reduce the lubricity levels further with petrol or kerosine.

Like many, i add a little (70ml) of two stroke oil to each tankful of diesel in my common rail car to improve lubricity. I dont have a DPF to worry about else i would probably not do it then either.
These systems are so much more critical than the systems people are referring back to here of the 80s and 90s, where a bosch rotary diesel pump would gladly run vegetable oil (i have done that), and a inline pump would run on anything thaw was liquid.
Diesel injection technology has moved on significantly

 

[Cowabunga]

I fully respect your comments about fuel, you are well versed and your warnings are normally correct.
I would point out though that your comments about wind chill are both right and wrong. If the air temperature is say -2 and the wind chill is -10 the diesel is never going to drop below -2 but it will get there much faster than if air temp and wind chill is -2.
So in a cold still day the risk of freezing is far less than a windy day.
Keeping both fuel tanks and tractors stored inside in the UK will ensure very little problem except at very exposed sites

I don’t believe you are correct. Wind chill only works due to evaporation. It used to be that tractor fuel tanks were behind sheet metal bonnets, which my 165 and JD2140 tanks were. Despite the thermos-like insulation they still waxed in the tanks visibly. Today’s tanks are mostly side mounted and totally exposed, yet it’s no worse.
The best I can suggest in your support is that insulated systems keep residual heat from a run engine for longer. If it’s -2 for a good while, then everything will become -2 eventually unless sealed.

I keep my critical tractors in a livestock shed when it gets really cold. This helps the initial start phase, hopefully until some engine heat augments the -15 [nominal] winter fuel. It has been about 15 years since it has been anywhere near that cold here on the coast though

 

[Bloders]

wind chill is an analogous measure to how cold something feels to a person.
What it is actually referring to is the effect on heat transfer (loss) due to forced convection (wind).
for a person, where you are a source of heat, then this matters more as your body is continually trying to keep itself at a steady temperature. It will do this by expending more energy.
For an object with no internal source of heat, then the effect of wind (forced convection) will increase the rate at which the heat is removed from the object, though the temperature it reaches will not be any different. So as above, if its -2 with a "-10 wind chill" the diesel will be at -2, eventually.

With common rail engines, due to the immense pressures generated by the fuel pump, quite a lot of heat energy is imparted into the fuel. You will note many systems will now even have a fuel cooler. I suspect once a CR engine is up and running, this will have a significant impact to the fuel within the tank.

 

[Cowabunga]

wind chill is an analogous measure to how cold something feels to a person.
What it is actually referring to is the effect on heat transfer (loss) due to forced convection (wind).
for a person, where you are a source of heat, then this matters more as your body is continually trying to keep itself at a steady temperature. It will do this by expending more energy.
For an object with no internal source of heat, then the effect of wind (forced convection) will increase the rate at which the heat is removed from the object, though the temperature it reaches will not be any different. So as above, if its -2 with a "-10 wind chill" the diesel will be at -2, eventually.

With common rail engines, due to the immense pressures generated by the fuel pump, quite a lot of heat energy is imparted into the fuel. You will note many systems will now even have a fuel cooler. I suspect once a CR engine is up and running, this will have a significant impact to the fuel within the tank.

That's right.
Most of the heat is generated in creating the very high pressure but what does have a heating effect on the tank contents eventually is the high rate of slightly heated fuel that is returned to the tank through the spill pipe. This is certainly not exclusive to common rail systems and is significant even in my old NH8360 with a Bosch mechanical rotary injector pump.

However, the heat thus generated is unlikely to stop filters plugging after a cold start, because the heat produced and the relative volume of a big tank would not possibly allow the tank content's temperature to raise sufficiently in the relevant time scale. It will probably take a couple of hours work before this becomes effective and during that time there will be significant radiated heat from the engine. Unless the filters plug in the first 15 minutes of course.

 

[Simon Chiles]

So a fan heater on long extension can't be called a fuel heater

Borrowed neighbours tractor to bed some cattle up in a rented shed. He wondered if we could fit an immersion heater element through the filler cap to warm the diesel up in the tank. Where there is a problem there is a farmer with an idea

I’d get a fuel heater for the JD, I’ve got them on all of mine, easy to fit, just unscrew plastic ring off top of the filter and remove the blanking plug, plug the heater into the wiring loom ( pre wired ) and stick the relay into the fuse box.

For those that wonder why winter grade diesel isn’t supplied all year I’d point out that you get about 5% less power from winter diesel than summer grade.

I’m with @Cowabunga on not adding anything to fuel for a modern Diesel engine other than a proprietary product it just isn’t worth a very expensive repair just to save a few quid.

 

[ricky_rascal]

Well our low has only been minus 2c but day got up to 2c and last night not quite minus 1. Not all that cold but diesel is cloudy. Sucked diesel out of JD tank and put 20liters in of recent winter diesel off a neighbour. Not getting fuel up to filter so may need more diesel in. Plan was to get it going then go to neighbours to fill up. Had filter off and warmed. Could do with a filter but Sunday and dealer shut. Not sure where I could find one today. A right PITA I can tell you. Soon as it warms up I'll fill bowser and put some adaptive in first. Fuel tank about half full so get maybe 1000litres in.

 

[Cowabunga]

Well our low has only been minus 2c but day got up to 2c and last night not quite minus 1. Not all that cold but diesel is cloudy. Sucked diesel out of JD tank and put 20liters in of recent winter diesel off a neighbour. Not getting fuel up to filter so may need more diesel in. Plan was to get it going then go to neighbours to fill up. Had filter off and warmed. Could do with a filter but Sunday and dealer shut. Not sure where I could find one today. A right PITA I can tell you. Soon as it warms up I'll fill bowser and put some adaptive in first. Fuel tank about half full so get maybe 1000litres in.

Since your fuel filter is plugged, it is [metaphorically] toast. You need new filters and to warm the lines and tankful of fuel before you are likely to get it going again.
As I previously mentioned, these 5 micron filters fitted these days will plug at or near to the fuel's cloud point, even though the frequently quoted cold filter plugging point is probably -5C. The finest filters may well plug at 5C higher than that, which is barely at 0C.
Same goes for Winter fuel, in that it is certified to -15 CFPP, but some filters might plug at -10C or even warmer if diluted by some Summer fuel or water contamination.

This will teach you for the future!

If you don't expect much frost for prolonged periods, you could add anti-wax additive direct to the vehicle tank rather than your bulk storage. You must do so when the fuel is warm though, before the wax forms. Also pour it in while filling the tank to ensure a good tank mix, and run it for five minutes to get the modified fuel through the filters before it freezes.
Flat batteries and plugged filters are the bane of life in frosty weather, but both can largely be avoided beforehand.

 

[ricky_rascal]

Cowabunga - you're not really helping

 

[Cowabunga]

Cowabunga - you're not really helping

You've got to laugh, or you'd cry.
I've been there and done that and got the tee-shirt, don't worry.

 

[ricky_rascal]

I never gave the diesel a thought. But as you say filters are bunged up it can stop where it is untill tomorrow. I've half filled tank after suckling out contents with winter grade diesel to get it going, tomorrow. Presume I can pump fresh diesel up through line before putting new filters on?

Need to see what us left in storage tank and maybe tip an additive in when tanker comes to fill up. May be around half full.

Long time since I had waxy diesel. Cheers for advice all.

 

[Qman]

I've got some winter diesel coming tomorrow but my IH475 went OK this morning and the glass filter was clear. I do however put Stanadyne in my bulk tank before a delivery and it says in their literature it takes diesel down by 10 degrees. It didn't work 3 years ago though on that rubbish stuff from the Lindsay refinery.

I fully agree on this matter with my old friend Cowabunga, don't put Kero or Petrol in a newish tractor.

 

[ricky_rascal]

I had no intention of Qman. I was looking for additives that are defo safe to use and work.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Well our low has only been minus 2c but day got up to 2c and last night not quite minus 1. Not all that cold but diesel is cloudy. Sucked diesel out of JD tank and put 20liters in of recent winter diesel off a neighbour. Not getting fuel up to filter so may need more diesel in. Plan was to get it going then go to neighbours to fill up. Had filter off and warmed. Could do with a filter but Sunday and dealer shut. Not sure where I could find one today. A right PITA I can tell you. Soon as it warms up I'll fill bowser and put some adaptive in first. Fuel tank about half full so get maybe 1000litres in.

If you have a bullet heater you can save your filters. Just be careful to not overheat anything. Have done this dozens of times on 2010-2014 JD tractors and combines. Unfortunately

 

[Yale]

We’ve used this into the bulk tank.

https://www.smithandallan.com/produ...5-smith-and-allan-diesel-fuel-anti-wax-agent/

 

[Right-arm fast]

We use Exocet as sold by our fuel suppliers to stop waxing. I think the ratio is 100 to 1. Steel tanked machines seem to be worse for waxing but that could be my imagination.

 

[ricky_rascal]

If you have a bullet heater you can save your filters. Just be careful to not overheat anything. Have done this dozens of times on 2010-2014 JD tractors and combines. Unfortunately

Don't have a bullet heater. Tractor is coming up for service in about 30 hours so filters would be coming off anyway. I'll change filters in morning. Like I say we sucked all we could out of tractor tank and 3/4 filled with winter grade. Hopefully should sort if it not I'll have to get dealer to it. Little Ford 4600 I had fan heater under tank for an hour, warmed and emptied filter, then hung some rugs over to keep heat in near tank - tank is behind engine in front of steering column. It runs roller mill and has a loader on so can move bales around yard to keep job going. Borrowed neighbours tractor for rented shed a mile away. We borrow each others as required and a good neighbour. Will get him some beers

 

[yellow belly]

2 years ago had summer diesel in combine put additive in it but it still waxed up when we moved the combine in March as it was cold just freezing
Changed filters and solved problem
Dewaxing needs a temperature nearer 10c rather than 1c

We also had waxing on newer tractors put additive in storage tank and recirculated the filler pump for half an hour to mix it this solved the problem also filtered the fuel inti the tractor tank

This year drained combine and stored summer diesel in another tank refilled with winter diesel

In future I will make sure we buy winter diesel which only becomes available in November

 

[HDAV]

If tractor is sitting not running when it’s cold will low temp cause any issues? Think of ours probably not going to be used when cold but will sit, thinking that starting them could cause an issue? But as much older machines will they be more tolerant of waxy fuel?