Do away with subsidies

[JD-Kid]

Afraid not! I'm currently working in NZ and I would say most medicines are more expensive except for the big volume purchases- drenches etc. e.g. 100ml betmox $58
Welfare I would say was on par with UK - a lot less climate related diseases for one, average SCC is lower here but lameness is an issue in some of the larger dairy herds.

Climate is the one big advantage that NZ has over UK. Drug prices etc are much less significant

agree if i went and brought drench in 1 or 5 lt packs the cost is way higher but in saying that i have brought drench in 100 lt drums and it's worked out higher than buying 20 lt drums
some things in bulk do work out cheeper bit like a 20 of roundup is cheeper than a 1 lt at the garden shop

 

[glasshouse]

Afraid not! I'm currently working in NZ and I would say most medicines are more expensive except for the big volume purchases- drenches etc. e.g. 100ml betmox $58
Welfare I would say was on par with UK - a lot less climate related diseases for one, average SCC is lower here but lameness is an issue in some of the larger dairy herds.

Climate is the one big advantage that NZ has over UK. Drug prices etc are much less significant

drench was what i meant. way cheaper.

 

[gone up the hill]

cow can get TB here we are not totaly free yet but numbers of reactors dropping

On the TB front the difference is that NZ ( quite rightly and this is what we should be doing ) is dealing with the TB issue in the wildlife effectively..

We have very tight cattle control movements yet TB is increasing like a wild fire year on year and is totally out of control, not uncommon for dairy/suckler herds in the SW of the UK to lose 30% of their herd in one TB test, no idea on the 0% of TB losses in NZ??

@bovine : if farmers subs were done away with overnight would this cause yourself and other vets to drop drug prices by 30%?? ( and im not having a go at you but just intrested in the answer even thou I know what it will be and the reasons for it )

 

[Henarar]

can't make out why farmers want to get rid of money for doing nothing

But ok I will go with that as long as its all the subs and I mean all everywhere not just import them

While we are at it how about the child subsidys get rid of that there are to many folk about now why would we want a production subsidy for them

 

[snowhite]

medicines in nz are way cheaper.

but they buy more and have less red tape , it is ok if no one starts asking for trace , a farmer in uz has 800 cows a guy here has 50 , same as round up in cheaper in canada but they buy in bulk ws get 2 20l cans a year

 

[Yale]

Do away with subs and all red tape,that'd be fair but will never happen.

A bit extra on sale prices would remove the need for subs.

Subs are what keep pensioners farming not allowing the young farmers to get a start.

 

[Dry Rot]

Is there any correlation between, for example, subsidies and the price of MF spares?

When the MOD decided to subsidise sound proofing around here (we are in an RAF weapons training area, so lots of low flying) , all the installers promptly put their prices up!

Coincidence? It's not free money if they promptly find ways to take it off you. There are lots of examples of that.

 

[czechmate]

Land prices in the uk are far too high for the uk to compete on a global market without subs. Maybe if the subs went the land price would fall?

 

[Davy_g]

I have a simplified version of a grant scheme floating about in my head.
Do away with all current payment schemes and systems.
Farmers and producers will realise the true cost of production and stop working for a loss. Rents, cereals, beef, lamb etc will realise a market price based on supply and demand.

Unfortunately that price is highly influenced by imports, the value of currency and subs in other countries.
This is where it falls down but all food imported that is produced with a sub or not to our environmental or welfare standards is levied. The money raised going to... Yep a subsidy scheme for new entrants... Bang head....

 

[JD-Kid]

On the TB front the difference is that NZ ( quite rightly and this is what we should be doing ) is dealing with the TB issue in the wildlife effectively..

We have very tight cattle control movements yet TB is increasing like a wild fire year on year and is totally out of control, not uncommon for dairy/suckler herds in the SW of the UK to lose 30% of their herd in one TB test, no idea on the 0% of TB losses in NZ??

@bovine : if farmers subs were done away with overnight would this cause yourself and other vets to drop drug prices by 30%?? ( and im not having a go at you but just intrested in the answer even thou I know what it will be and the reasons for it )

tight controls here too with testing and movements some areas are hot spots mainly bush country so a lot of wildlife hard to move cows out of those areas .. day in court if lieing on forms or cows not turning up for retesting and other farmers are hard too people bringing in cattle out of TB areas get the hint from locals
here most will shoot or trap carryers

 

[gone up the hill]

Land prices in the uk are far too high for the uk to compete on a global market without subs. Maybe if the subs went the land price would fall?

Subs going wont make one iota of difference to UK land prices as the majority of land is bought by city money/ rollover reasons and good lifers who just want to own a bit of the UK to play on..

But yep your right land is too expensive, needs to be nearer half what its currently making from a farming point of view..

 

[Henarar]

tight controls here too with testing and movements some areas are hot spots mainly bush country so a lot of wildlife hard to move cows out of those areas .. day in court if lieing on forms or cows not turning up for retesting and other farmers are hard too people bringing in cattle out of TB areas get the hint from locals
here most will shoot or trap carryers

at least you are not just forced to live with it out of ignorance and stupidity

 

[Henarar]

changing IH tax would make more difference to land price
getting rid of subs would just mean farmers would have less money to compete with the city money

 

[caveman]

Land is only too dear for those that can't afford to buy it!

 

[Bury the Trash]

the ethics for me - most of my sfp (and els )goes on maintaining the small fields with hedges etc that would otherwise increase my costs unfairly.keeping this beautilful country looking the way it does COSTS money.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

On the TB front the difference is that NZ ( quite rightly and this is what we should be doing ) is dealing with the TB issue in the wildlife effectively..

We have very tight cattle control movements yet TB is increasing like a wild fire year on year and is totally out of control, not uncommon for dairy/suckler herds in the SW of the UK to lose 30% of their herd in one TB test, no idea on the 0% of TB losses in NZ??

Anybody see Holby City on BBC1 last night?

 

[JD-Kid]

at least you are not just forced to live with it out of ignorance and stupidity

naa think the farmers are game changers the greens do put there 10 cents in but when the carryers are also damageing bird life etc they tend to agree with gritted teeth
here cow that react are gone then area targeted for pest control the money for that mainly from pest rates and or levys at killing plants in some ways a govt/farmer funded program so a live market is not supporting the farmers in a lot of ways
also helps when the pests are not native

 

[bovine]

@bovine : if farmers subs were done away with overnight would this cause yourself and other vets to drop drug prices by 30%?? ( and im not having a go at you but just intrested in the answer even thou I know what it will be and the reasons for it )[/QUOTE]

No, it would have no effect whatsoever. The margin on the drenches/parasite products are minuscule. I don't have a 30% margin on anything - I would be selling everything at a loss. The change would have to come from the drug companies.

The biggest problem we have is many of these products are too cheap. It makes it too easy to jump for a bottle of something and treat your way out of problems.

Do you think we'd have the resistance problems we have now with wormers if the drenches cost £1/lamb and £2/ewe?

I'd much rather that the medicines for treatment got a lot more expensive and perhaps vaccines dropped significantly in price. Encourage good husbandry and management.

 

[multi power]

Are you sure about that 'fact'? IIRC, the average number of lactations is fairly similar between UK & NZ, but the NZ lactation length is shorter on average, on account of them being so much more efficient with their block calving systems.

Well it's 15 years since I was in new Zealand but at that time cows lived about twice as long.lactation there is of course shorter. That's perhaps got something to do with the fact they can get cows pregnant again without repeated services and long time delays

 

[snowhite]

Land prices in the uk are far too high for the uk to compete on a global market without subs. Maybe if the subs went the land price would fall?

is it farming that is pushing the price or others that can invest in land in the same way as the invest in gold , you know in france you have to jump over bars to be let buy land you don't have the same in the uk ,
some of the red tape is important and some is silly