Do I ever become legal tenant?

[PhilipB]

The situation is this- I take on some land, first as executor then inheritor

In the middle of the holding is 9 acres rough pasture that belongs to a large historic land owning body. Former farmer rented this since forever for a few hundred quid a year and had always successfully fought off rent reviews. He claimed BPS on it (no, I'm not closely enough related to succeed to the tenancy)

Landlord's agent is currently a smart nation wide company.

So, as executor I informed agent of death (2018) and paid rent on behalf of his estate. And told them I wanted my own tenancy on the field.

A suitably smart agent came out, looked about. Emailed me a proposal for a FBT for rather more then a couple of hundred a year.

I sat on this. Few months later tried to contact him, he'd left the smart agent, and in fact that whole branch had closed.

Some time passed. I met with smart agent of next nearest branch on a different matter, and mentioned the tenancy. He nodded and sniffed, as if to say that one day when there was nothing more important to do one of his staff might one day look into the matter.

Meanwhile the rent invoices still come to the former farmer's old house, and when they are passed across to me i pay them.


On the bottom they always have the disclaimer about only accepting payment from the named tenant, or agent thereof. Of course it's a quite separate department of the smart agency that does this. Once they queried the name on the cheque, and I told them about the nod and the sniff, and they cashed it.

So I've had 6 years of BPS on the land, for not much per year.

Do I ever become actual tenant?

Should I stop paying the rent demands?

My fear is that if I stop they'll look into the situation and either...
A) the historic owning body decide that this remote 9 acres should go into an eco scheme.
B) I have to pay more for what, in effect, I already have.

 

[Mc115reed]

It’s 9 acres at the end the day just keep paying the couple hundred quid, keep your head down and if you loose it you loose it .. it’s only 9 acres

 

[Stewartry hill]

Keep paying say nothing and close this thread before the agent sees it and reminds him

 

[anzani]

For discussion only. Does your parcel totally surround the 'historic' 9 acres. Is there an existing independent access to it or do you control the access ?

 

[PhilipB]

For discussion only. Does your parcel totally surround the 'historic' 9 acres. Is there an existing independent access to it or do you control the access ?

There is an overgrown and boggy byway. You'd struggle to get there on anything larger than a small pickup.

 

[Hesstondriver]

There is an overgrown and boggy byway. You'd struggle to get there on anything larger than a small pickup.

keep head down , mouth shut

 

[egbert]

Hmm.
Depending on who the owner is, is sounds like one day they'll decide to put it into some rewilding bollix, which won't need much in the way of access.

I'm not aware of anything which will force their hand into giving you a tenancy.
Either the agent will, or they won't, and the more you fidget, the more likely they'll either (a) agents'll stuff you for rent, or (b) owners/agents will take it back and take flower cash.

Take what you can for now, and maybe allow nice broadleaved trees to grow across/over their access.
(You never know, they might get too big to hack back without a licence one day!)

edit
It occurs that if it had little eco merit, would they be more inclined to sell one day?
If that is a possibility, ensure there's little to excite the eco experts?

 

[steveR]

Hmm.
Depending on who the owner is, is sounds like one day they'll decide to put it into some rewilding bollix, which won't need much in the way of access.

I'm not aware of anything which will force their hand into giving you a tenancy.
Either the agent will, or they won't, and the more you fidget, the more likely they'll either (a) agents'll stuff you for rent, or (b) owners/agents will take it back and take flower cash.

Take what you can for now, and maybe allow nice broadleaved trees to grow across/over their access.
(You never know, they might get too big to hack back without a licence one day!)

edit
It occurs that if it had little eco merit, would they be more inclined to sell one day?
If that is a possibility, ensure there's little to excite the eco experts?

But no Eco merit = better BNG value.....

You cannot win with them

 

[PhilipB]

Hmm.
Depending on who the owner is, is sounds like one day they'll decide to put it into some rewilding bollix, which won't need much in the way of access.

I'm not aware of anything which will force their hand into giving you a tenancy.
Either the agent will, or they won't, and the more you fidget, the more likely they'll either (a) agents'll stuff you for rent, or (b) owners/agents will take it back and take flower cash.

Take what you can for now, and maybe allow nice broadleaved trees to grow across/over their access.
(You never know, they might get too big to hack back without a licence one day!)

edit
It occurs that if it had little eco merit, would they be more inclined to sell one day?
If that is a possibility, ensure there's little to excite the eco experts?

I've tended to think that as the owner is a historic landowning institution they wouldn't be inclined to sell and the cogs of their machine wouldn't shift that kind of money

 

[Nearly]

 

[Dry Rot]

It seems to me that you are at least the agent of the deceased's estate. But as they have accepted payment from you with your name on the cheque, you are now the tenant. As others have advised, keep doing what you are doing. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Just make sure all dealings and correspondence are with you as tenant which will help you if push comes to shove.

I know of a similar case but in Scotland. The landowner received a cheque for rent from a "third party". Being fond of money, he banked it. That was enough for him to have given a nod to the new tenancy in the eyes of the law, especially as he was already in possession.

 

[PhilipB]

It seems to me that you are at least the agent of the deceased's estate. But as they have accepted payment from you with your name on the cheque, you are now the tenant. As others have advised, keep doing what you are doing. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Just make sure all dealings and correspondence are with you as tenant which will help you if push comes to shove.

I know of a similar case but in Scotland. The landowner received a cheque for rent from a "third party". Being fond of money, he banked it. That was enough for him to have given a nod to the new tenancy in the eyes of the law, especially as he was already in possession.

Interesting.

I was wondering if the "accepting payment only on the understanding that the payer was agent of tenant" clause on the rent invoices has much legal weight.

I feel that my having emails from one of their employees offering me a tenancy proves that I officially informed the smart agency of the death.

(I don't have a record that I did, because I never anticipated an ambiguous situation developing)

They could argue that as I was an executor they had no reason to stop accepting payment from my account as I had been legal agent. And i had never informed them that I had stopped being agent.

 

[PeterPrestbury]

Philipb, not necessarily directed at you, but,

In many situations in life, what you could do and what you should do, are sometimes not aligned and doing the former could give you an advantage to some one else's detriment.

Unless you have a very good reason as to why not, then treat others as you would wish to be treated if you were them.

The definition of integrity is to do the right thing, even when no one is looking.
Ask yourself:
1. Do you have integrity?
2. Do you wish to be known as someone who doesn't?
3. Do you care about 2.?
4. See 1.

 

[Nearly]

5. Has some cocky agent pished you off?
6. Do you really want to?

 

[Kentishfarmer]

To over simplify if the agent cashes the rent cheque directly paid from yourself with no written caveat that you are paying on behalf of the deceased then there starts to be a case that they have accepted you as the successor to the tenancy.
But as you would have not qualified to succeed the deceased in the tenancy, the agents could argue that there is effectively a new rolling FBT with you rather than an AHA succession to you. As that would have been impossible under the AHA, due to your relation to the deceased
There is a whole other can of worms if you have taken on the business/company from the deceased and continue to pay rent from said account, that can be a route to succession I believe.
I think it will come down to who has the bigger legal teeth/wants it more

 

[PhilipB]

Philipb, not necessarily directed at you, but,

In many situations in life, what you could do and what you should do, are sometimes not aligned and doing the former could give you an advantage to some one else's detriment.

Unless you have a very good reason as to why not, then treat others as you would wish to be treated if you were them.

The definition of integrity is to do the right thing, even when no one is looking.
Ask yourself:
1. Do you have integrity?
2. Do you wish to be known as someone who doesn't?
3. Do you care about 2.?
4. See 1.

I don't resent your comment at all.

I feel that I have unwittingly found myself into a situation and have done the right thing in that I have informed the posh agent of the situation on three occasions.

The issue is the inertia of the smart agent in dealing with the minor details of an institutional client's portfolio.

 

[Nearly]

If you're paying rent from your personal acct you're acting as executor?
If you're paying from your business account then you're paying on your own behalf?
If it's ltd co etc then that feels like a different thing to me.

 

[Netherfield]

7. are said agents an anagram of Jarter Conas

 

[PhilipB]

7. are said agents an anagram of Jarter Conas

No.

The only clue I'm going to give is that they drive Audis and wear either tweeds or sheoffels.

 

[B R C]

It’s. Only 9 acres, no way you’re going to get an AHA, it would be wrong anyway , so just carry on as you are until they decide what they are going to do with it.