Do you ROTATIONALLY GRAZE your livestock? and if not, why?

[Jdunn55]

ive read that the cattle dont actually do better than set stocked you can just stock higher which frees up land for either more grain or cows, does this extra ground benefit you much though if you then need more staff to handle it? is the extra cost/work of the system actually then profitable and enough to be worthwhile? mabye just when cereal prices are high?

No because instead of running 4 groups of 20 cows that all need to be checked I now ran one group of 80. Was far quicker, and animal health and attention to detail didnt suffer because I spent the time moving the electric fence with them and watching them - whereas if I set stocked 1 group of 80 cows the temptation would be to look over rthe gate and assume they're fine or else easily miss 1 of the calves etc which is why they were only in groups of 20.

In terms of performance, our yearlings definitely grew better, how much by I dont know, but they definitely did better.

 

[M-J-G]

do the fields have to be divided in 6? i could run electric trrough the middle of 2 adjoining fields and try in with 4 paddocks? 6 is a lot more fencing/water pipes and moving

Try it with 4, that's better than nothing

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Tbf I've never tried them because I tried some cheap sh!t which lasted all of two seconds as I got fed up with them, tried the gallagher and found them brilliant and they do everything I need and more

I find the TruTest ones simpler and easier to use, I inherited one Gallagher geared reel and it's the one least likely to be used, if only by last resort.
Also use only PEL mains fences here after I took our old Gallagher back to Hamilton to get fixed, and literally just looking at it refused to fix it.
While it might not have been worth fixing, the attitude of the staff left a bit to be desired....

 

[som farmer]

I have just checked my figures and I was way out. I looked at setting up a second unit for 200 cows on a 140 acre block split into 25 paddocks and it was going to be about 65k for 1900m of sleepers, 32mm water pipe, 20 troughs and 4000m of single strand electric. This was about 6 years ago when I could get the sleepers at £5.50 each. Works out at over £300 cow

but you don't have to do it all at once, we do not have perm elec fencing, just use temp, with back fence, move troughs with pallet forks, and blue pipe, cheap, easy, and flexible, we have taken out some paddock fencing, it 'restrains' your ability to accurately judge the amount of grass to give them. Tracks, best near the farm, then astro turf, but the further out, just soil, they don't get the use, and we add on, as and when.

@Bossfarmer , if you want to see the extra grass you can freely produce, just use temp fences, for ultra proof, back fence, every days growth, is there to see, every day. One of the unrealised problems, with set stocking, or several day paddocks, is the cattle will graze all over, taking the best tasting grass first, then they have an option, eat the grasses they dislike, or leave them, and graze the 'nice' grass down to the roots, the result, is you give the 'bad' grass, a head start on the 'good', which leads to a rapid deuteriation of the ley, without you even thinking about it.
Dairy farming has a head start, we move our cows x2 day anyway, and as previously said, the bulk tank is proof, beef you have to wait, but the gains should be similar, just use a back fence, as a trial, you will be surprised.
Many beef farmers just do not realise the benefits, they just think extra work.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I do yes. It is time consuming and a lot of people simply can’t be arsed to do it.

If all paddocks have water it’s easier. All depends on individual circumstances too. Random grazing all over shop is a pita

And super inefficient, effectively halving stocking rate because of only [properly] grazing half the plants
selective grazing then incurs costs down the track

 

[onesiedale]

, taking the best tasting grass first, then they have an option, eat the grasses they dislike, or leave them, and graze the 'nice' grass down to the roots, the result, is you give the 'bad' grass, a head start on the 'good', which leads to a rapid deuteriation of the ley, without you even thinking about it

] grazing half the plants
selective grazing then incurs costs down the track

@Bossfarmer the last two posts have talked about selective grazing. It's a bit like taking selective answers to a question.
If you're not hungry enough then the bad answers can over power the good ones. This leads to a mind full of weeds and the only way out is to hit the reset button.
And so the cycle will start over again.
The true answer lies in not being selective, stand back and let it rest, then the good pasture will outgrow the bad.

 

[Bossfarmer]

What do you mean by rotational grazing?
I have run various systems that would qualify & you wouldn't notice them all if you drove by
1) Sheep in year 1, cattle in year 2, cropped fodder and fat lambs in year 3
2) Cattle grazing fields for a couple of weeks followed by sheep then a rest for a couple of weeks then start again
3) Moving mobs of sheep around 14 paddocks with long rests between bites

All have advantages ---
More moves you do the more infrastructure you need and the more labour intensive the system becomes
Rotational doesn't always fit easily with conservation objectives
Horses for courses

Stocking them tight and moving them every few days, driving round nz I was amazed to see huge cattle numbers in small paddocks, this was common driving around, I don't see that here

 

[Bossfarmer]

Single strand of HT electric + portable trough won't be too much of an issue.
You'll realise that you can grow and graze that much grass that you will never want to drill cereals again!

Would a strand through the middle of 2 adjoining fields to create 4 paddocks make much difference? How many days do you graze for at a time with 4 paddocks?

 

[Bossfarmer]

Try it with 4, that's better than nothing

How many days between shifts with 4?

 

[roscoe erf]

yes i do

 

[som farmer]

How many days between shifts with 4?

more than 1 day, leads to selective grazing, and sward deuteriation, this is the bit that causes reseeding, and the bit no one realises. Look at the quoted duration of a ley, then why you must reseed, because, weeds/weedgrasses are more than 50% of the ley, or so, the reason is cattle have taken out the good grasses, by grazing them out, by choice.
Mob grazing, quick in/out, and a longer recovery time, works well, the grasses they don't eat, but trample in, are usually the 'bad' grasses, that trampled grass, is utilised by earthworms etc, and is processed into top soil, which increases yield. There is a 'u' tube thread, on a chap called greg judy, how he farms his suckler herd, may well be a step to far for you, but his cattle look superb, fed on, grass, more grass, and no conc, silage, only a small amount of hay, and stay out, all the time, never housed, wormed, de flied, only free choice minerals, and copes with extremes of cold and wet.
His sheep farming, again rotationally grazed, all kept in by 1 strand elec fence, 12 ins high, and the bit, we cannot do, but would love to, predators, or stray dogs, kept away, by guardian dogs, that are born, and reared with the sheep, (which look crap), would stop both, sheep worrying or theft, overnight.

 

[Whitepeak]

I have just checked my figures and I was way out. I looked at setting up a second unit for 200 cows on a 140 acre block split into 25 paddocks and it was going to be about 65k for 1900m of sleepers, 32mm water pipe, 20 troughs and 4000m of single strand electric. This was about 6 years ago when I could get the sleepers at £5.50 each. Works out at over £300 cow

What proportion of the cost is the tracks? I'm fancying doing the same for our sucklers, but I won't need the tracks.
Did you do the fences yourself?

 

[smallholder99]

with cold sleet weather sometimes late april/early may how do young cattle that have been turned out from sheds manage with an electric fence for shelter instead of a hedge on exposed fields,is there a lot more illness

 

[rusty]

What proportion of the cost is the tracks? I'm fancying doing the same for our sucklers, but I won't need the tracks.
Did you do the fences yourself?

About 2/3rds was for the tracks. High tensile electric wire is quite cheap to do . You only need a post every 10-15 metres and depending on ground conditions we push most of the posts in with the JCB. You really want a post knocker to do the strainers with.
I was also costing in big 600 gallon water troughs which you wouldn't need to be that big for suckers. You would also get away with 25mm water pipe and can just lay it in the wall bottom rather than trench or mole it in to save costs.

 

[Tim W]

Stocking them tight and moving them every few days, driving round nz I was amazed to see huge cattle numbers in small paddocks, this was common driving around, I don't see that here

This i do but not as intensively as many---I move some stock at some times of year every few days/week and it's great for some stock
It's not great for large mobs of ewes with day old lambs at foot
It's not good if you don't farm in a ring fence
There is a certain amount of truth in the lazy mans quote ''if i wanted to move animals every day i'd milk cows''

 

[M-J-G]

How many days between shifts with 4?

That will vary depending on stocking rate, time of year weather etc.
We are around 5 days to a week.
If we were dairy I would offer fresh grass every milking or purely sheep I'd move daily, but with sucklers daily shifts tend to lead to them standing roaring waiting on a move, or start gathering at gates every time they hear the bike.

 

[Jimfandango]

What's the sort of standard acreage you need to keep one animal for a year in that system (sucklers and sheep)?

 

[som farmer]

About 2/3rds was for the tracks. High tensile electric wire is quite cheap to do . You only need a post every 10-15 metres and depending on ground conditions we push most of the posts in with the JCB. You really want a post knocker to do the strainers with.
I was also costing in big 600 gallon water troughs which you wouldn't need to be that big for suckers. You would also get away with 25mm water pipe and can just lay it in the wall bottom rather than trench or mole it in to save costs.

i'm not sure perm ht electric fencing, for set sized paddocks is the right way to go, admittedly it's not expensive, but it takes a huge amount of flexibility out of the system, you are 'restricted' to paddock sized grazing, but grass does not grow at the same speed, all season, and, in wet weather, you are restricted to 1 entrance, with a more movable system, you can easily move entrance points. We have strategic ht elec fences, to heep cattle from cropped ground, and as a hot wire, to bring power to temp fences.

 

[Bury the Trash]

with cold sleet weather sometimes late april/early may how do young cattle that have been turned out from sheds manage with an electric fence for shelter instead of a hedge on exposed fields,is there a lot more illness

Farm assurance requires shade as well doesnt it ?

 

[Bossfarmer]

so id get bother with farm assuranc

Farm assurance requires shade as well doesnt it ?

so id get bother with farm assurance?