Does No-Till solve all our problems?

[Farma Parma]

The usual controversy but i know this land enough to know what you can n cant do with it.
The land 1/2mile away is way diff to here & as for land around the wooler area its even more diff than anything around me
Vaddy Drills have made some think oh thats the way forward until you actually hear the amount of passes to get the req seedbed in the first place.
Plus we get way more wet up here & far less sun all yr round than anyone farming south of York say...
OSR is the only crop i mintill but would never think of doing nothing to the ground to try n sow it...
Unless you want no crop atall.
Ive ploughed 22" high Rape Stubbles that had Muck Spread on this yr & to get the seedbed about right for Combi Disc Drilling it still had a Press & 2nd Power Harrowing before me... Thats on some of the heavier stuff mind.

 

[Banana Bar]

I know but if its that good then why is there virtually none done in Northumberland ??
Answer me that ?
Worlds apart to 250m south of here...

Well I know someone no tilling in Northumberland with a CS

 

[SilliamWhale]

I know of no one else consistently no tilling in my area. Doesn't mean it they couldn't if they wanted to.

Heard all the reasons why; too wet, too dry, needs air, needs muck incorporated, too tight, too loose etc. Its all to do with the top two inches in the farmer

 

[Farma Parma]

i'll just keep ploughing...
Half the amount of weeds
Half the compaction
Clean Start to next yrs crop
Iam buggered if i can see any reason to change...
Id put money on you would only get less than half the crop.
year in year out.
Wont work on this land and climate... End of....
Good Luck with managing your Black Grass which in most cases is due to not ploughing & far too close a rotation in the first place.
This 6" ploughing isnt any use either its always 9" or more here.
Subsoiling 12-15" aswell

Much bigger scale farmers locally to me & on similar land tried it a few yrs back & had a disaster
everything gets ploughed now except for OSR which is the same as me.
Crops never been better since. year in year out & only bad when the weather is against you which is most cert was back end of 2012

 

[rob1]

i'll just keep ploughing...
Half the amount of weeds
Half the compaction
Clean Start to next yrs crop
Iam buggered if i can see any reason to change...
Id put money on you would only get less than half the crop.
year in year out.
Wont work on this land and climate... End of....
Good Luck with managing your Black Grass which in most cases is due to not ploughing & far too close a rotation in the first place.
This 6" ploughing isnt any use either its always 9" or more here.
Subsoiling 12-15" aswell

Much bigger scale farmers locally to me & on similar land tried it a few yrs back & had a disaster
everything gets ploughed now except for OSR which is the same as me.
Crops never been better since. year in year out & only bad when the weather is against you which is most cert was back end of 2012

Nice to be able to plough at 9 inches or more, would be yellow clay here if I tried that. But if it works for you then carry on its a free world

 

[Farma Parma]

Nice to be able to plough at 9 inches or more, would be yellow clay here if I tried that. But if it works for you then carry on its a free world

5fr KV & 220horses easy peasy....
Wasnt so easy with 160hp before...
16" furrows mind dont like slabs of hard soil....
Winter ploughing one of my two fields of Peas yielded me another 500kg an acre this yr...
You live & learn.
Ive seen stuff thats DD and its shocking & its right next to the Main Road year in year out.
Farmer does own the place so he can just hobby farm anyways...
wish i was that lucky

 

[rob1]

5fr KV & 220horses easy peasy....
Wasnt so easy with 160hp before...
16" furrows mind dont like slabs of hard soil....
Winter ploughing one of my two fields of Peas yielded me another 500kg an acre this yr...
You live & learn.
Ive seen stuff thats DD and its shocking & its right next to the Main Road year in year out.
Farmer does own the place so he can just hobby farm anyways...
wish i was that lucky

perhaps he is saving so much money growing the crop compared to you he doesnt need four tonnes an acre

 

[Farma Parma]

Neither would i if i owed this farm....
The Little Money Ploughing & working the land costs to more than double your ton's per acre is priceless
Simply removing the previous years Combine Marks,Tramlines,Baler marks,Bale team Marks & Grain Removal Wheeling's
has to be done somehow..
This Land would just be like Tarmac Roads if you didnt Cultivate it somehow

 

[Farma Parma]

perhaps he is saving so much money growing the crop compared to you he doesnt need four tonnes an acre

Four ton to the acre will struggle to break even this year....
On a good year tho it makes all the diff
I did have some wheat do 4.8t/ac DRIED this year...
a first for this farm.

 

[Badshot]

Neither would i if i owed this farm....
The Little Money Ploughing & working the land costs to more than double your ton's per acre is priceless
Simply removing the previous years Combine Marks,Tramlines,Baler marks,Bale team Marks & Grain Removal Wheeling's
has to be done somehow..
This Land would just be like Tarmac Roads if you didnt Cultivate it somehow

Whereabouts are you? I know of someone successfully drilling with a dts in Northumberland area.
Not that many years ago I'd have agreed with everything you've said, now I keep my opinion to myself locally, why let others in on the secret;-)
Dd does work, if it didn't I wouldn't be doing it, simple as that.

 

[Baling Hay]

Neither would i if i owed this farm....
The Little Money Ploughing & working the land costs to more than double your ton's per acre is priceless
Simply removing the previous years Combine Marks,Tramlines,Baler marks,Bale team Marks & Grain Removal Wheeling's
has to be done somehow..
This Land would just be like Tarmac Roads if you didnt Cultivate it somehow

You really need to go away and do some research on no-till before making such bold statements!

 

[Farma Parma]

please tell me how trying to plant seeds in all the previous years compacted ground works then....
they say you learn something everyday..
Am all ears.

Badshot
Iam in North Northumberland some 300miles north of you
with easily 1/3 more rain & 1/3 less sun yearly & the cold winds and everything else the North Sea brings with it.

 

[SilliamWhale]

please tell me how trying to plant seeds in all the previous years compacted ground works then....
they say you learn something everyday..
Am all ears.

Badshot
Iam in North Northumberland some 300miles north of you
with easily 1/3 more rain & 1/3 less sun yearly & the cold winds and everything else the North Sea brings with it.

I have more rain than you I expect. Not that it makes much difference.

Anyway we don't plant seeds into compacted ground because we don't compact it. Its simple. Compaction is mostly as a result of breaking soil particles into smaller ones and turning soil over constantly. Wheelmarking is considerably worse when you've broken the soil structure the year before or when you never let soil structure itself naturally. It may be hard to believe especially if you think your way is the only way that works.

You could invert the question - if that soil grew such a good crop what did you do at harvest to f**k things up so much that another crop can't be grown in the same situation?

 

[martian]

Farma Parma

if you have 27 spare minutes watch this youtube video. It explains why you 'need' to keep ploughing. If you stopped, you wouldn't need to get rid of combine wheelings etc as the ground will recover itself, as long as you keep something growing in it all the time

 

[Badshot]

please tell me how trying to plant seeds in all the previous years compacted ground works then....
they say you learn something everyday..
Am all ears.

Badshot
Iam in North Northumberland some 300miles north of you
with easily 1/3 more rain & 1/3 less sun yearly & the cold winds and everything else the North Sea brings with it.

I did say I know someone making it work in the Northumberland area, and he is often drier than here, we had what? 10 inches of rain since mid August? Very heavy land that used to take ridiculous amounts of passes to get a seedbed. Indeed the simba man said it was the most challenging demo he'd ever done.

Now I drill, roll twice. Job done.

Aren't the crop records oop north as the day length is longer?

 

[Badshot]

Farma Parma

if you have 27 spare minutes watch this youtube video. It explains why you 'need' to keep ploughing. If you stopped, you wouldn't need to get rid of combine wheelings etc as the ground will recover itself, as long as you keep something growing in it all the time

I can vouch for the combine Wheeling's bit. I ploughed a few fields of old pasture out this spring, what a mess after combining. Wheeling's like I haven't seen for years, it'll take me years to get the fields level again.
Wish I'd left it fallow now really as the spring wheat was bloody awful anyway.

 

[Chae1]

I know of no one else consistently no tilling in my area. Doesn't mean it they couldn't if they wanted to.

Heard all the reasons why; too wet, too dry, needs air, needs muck incorporated, too tight, too loose etc. Its all to do with the top two inches in the farmer

Why do you think they don't follow your lead? Surely if they saw how cheaply you are establishing your crops and how well they look they would do the same?

I know if I'd a neighbour successfully establishing crops by no till I would give it a go. I don't have the balls personally.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Why do you think they don't follow your lead? Surely if they saw how cheaply you are establishing your crops and how well they look they would do the same?

I know if I'd a neighbour successfully establishing crops by no till I would give it a go. I don't have the balls personally.

Directly around me most people are spuds growers and dairy. Others don't have a no till drill. And others will have messy tight fields from cultivations. And some will think that it must be done the way its always done. So there are probably a mix of reasons - its mainly the assumption that ploughing is the only way, followed by the lack of no till drills.

Another one is the neighbour thing. We never really learn from neighbours.

 

[Badshot]

Why do you think they don't follow your lead? Surely if they saw how cheaply you are establishing your crops and how well they look they would do the same?

I know if I'd a neighbour successfully establishing crops by no till I would give it a go. I don't have the balls personally.

Funny thing is most farmers want to believe the crops grown under dd are rubbish, I've told a few my yields this year. Some believe me. Some don't. I do know I've contributed to three claydons being bought locally.
I call it head in sand syndrome.

 

[Farma Parma]

I have more rain than you I expect. Not that it makes much difference.

Anyway we don't plant seeds into compacted ground because we don't compact it. Its simple. Compaction is mostly as a result of breaking soil particles into smaller ones and turning soil over constantly. Wheelmarking is considerably worse when you've broken the soil structure the year before or when you never let soil structure itself naturally. It may be hard to believe especially if you think your way is the only way that works.

You could invert the question - if that soil grew such a good crop what did you do at harvest to fudge things up so much that another crop can't be grown in the same situation?

You have +5c temps higher than here all year round aswell i watch the forecasts....
The Rain Compacts the ground aswell not just us with all the machinery passes.
You have to heavy cultivate it or subsoil it when conditions allow.
and the rest gets ploughed for all the reasons ive explained previously.
I have several v good crops sown single pass after the plough that are rowed up like a book
The Heavier Land just needs a bit more attention but its either too dry or often too Wet thats the trouble.
Plus the window for catching it just right is very short.

Were only doing what everyone else does to get the crop harvested etc etc
unless theres a way that does no compaction? is there such a thing as a HoverTractor?