Drainage, Methods, tips, tricks etc

[Overwelly]

Look at soil max gold digger plough, this is mine , using JD rtk gps to lay pipe accurately at 10 m spacing without gravel (although this is possible with the addition of a gravel box) I have drained 70 acres over the past 18 months, decided gravel was too expensive so laying pipes at 1 spacing rather than 20m with gravel, so far so good in good conditions we can drain 10 acres a day with 2 men plus a digger

Should read 10m spacing!!

 

[fudge]

I was at a CSF meeting on a heavy high mag clay farm. They were spending £5k/acre to redrain entire fields with gravel backfill! They still reckoned they would get their money back in around 5 years. This is the year to show up good & failed field schemes. The difference between a field redrained 2 years ago & one due to be done next winter was immense.

What kind of costs would you budget for pipe only, 10m spacings with no backfill? Contractor doing the work on brashy soils.

That can’t be right! Re draining doesn’t cost £5k/acre. You must be even more confused than usual.

 

[Brisel]

That can’t be right! Re draining doesn’t cost £5k/acre. You must be even more confused than usual.

I asked the manager of that unit twice as it seemed excessive. It is in a part of the world where HS2 is competing for resources.

Not confused at all, thank you!

Edited to add: 20m spacing mains & laterals, gravel to moling depth

 

[Spencer]

Look at soil max gold digger plough, this is mine , using JD rtk gps to lay pipe accurately at 10 m spacing without gravel (although this is possible with the addition of a gravel box) I have drained 70 acres over the past 18 months, decided gravel was too expensive so laying pipes at 1 spacing rather than 20m with gravel, so far so good in good conditions we can drain 10 acres a day with 2 men plus a digger

How much? Was very interested when they started in Europe, very popular in US

 

[Spencer]

That can’t be right! Re draining doesn’t cost £5k/acre. You must be even more confused than usual.

I’d well imagine that to be the case nowadays.. “Re draining” is a broad term, spacing & depth can alter the string length.

 

[Overwelly]

How much? Was very interested when they started in Europe, very popular in US

Was c£35k 18 months ago

 

[Iben]

Was c£35k 18 months ago

I really like the idea of them, just not plucked up the courage to order one yet.

You obviously pull yours with a crawler. Would a 250hp wheeled tractor be sufficient? (No terribly steep hills or bogs to get through).

How doea it cope with large stones?

 

[Fen Farmer]

What are people paying for drainage Stone
Being quoted over £30 ton delivered ?

£24/T here at the moment for 20-40mm washed gravel.

 

[Overwelly]

I really like the idea of them, just not plucked up the courage to order one yet.

You obviously pull yours with a crawler. Would a 250hp wheeled tractor be sufficient? (No terribly steep hills or bogs to get through).

How doea it cope with large stones?

Depends on ground conditions, tractor will pull no problem in dry going, plough has a tow hitch point on it so in tough going you can pull with 2 tractors, alternatively pre rip without pipe at half depth before doing pipe laying run.

Really large stones can lift it out the ground in which case you will have to lift out and reset fortunately we don’t have too many really big rocks so have only had this happen once so far

 

[nxy]

Nobody seems to use stone in this area. The pros use a subsoiler type machine at close spacings using small pipe. Typically 80mm pipe at 8-10m apart.

I have done a lot (several 100 hectares) with a Rabaud tractor mounted machine using 50mm pipe at 12m spacings. Its been a while since I bought any as I tend to buy an artic load which takes a while to use up but the pipe is something like 100 euros for 250m. 800m of pipe drains a hectare. Its quite time consuming though and we normally only lay the pipe on the third pass using a 250Hp tractor.

DRAINING subsoiler | Rabaud

www.rabaud.com

Don't ask me how much they cost mine is 24 years old and cost me 23000 francs, it was pre euro! which was give or take about £2500.

 

[DanniAgro]

Nobody seems to use stone in this area. The pros use a subsoiler type machine at close spacings using small pipe. Typically 80mm pipe at 8-10m apart.

I have done a lot (several 100 hectares) with a Rabaud tractor mounted machine using 50mm pipe at 12m spacings. Its been a while since I bought any as I tend to buy an artic load which takes a while to use up but the pipe is something like 100 euros for 250m. 800m of pipe drains a hectare. Its quite time consuming though and we normally only lay the pipe on the third pass using a 250Hp tractor.

DRAINING subsoiler | Rabaud

www.rabaud.com

Don't ask me how much they cost mine is 24 years old and cost me 23000 francs, it was pre euro! which was give or take about £2500.

So you draw the subsoiler through the ground three times at progressively deeper levels until it’s deep enough to lay the pipe: is that correct? And at what depth are you typically laying it?
You must be either working very deep or using a small tractor, as an American machine similar to yours only took 150 hp to draw it to a depth of three foot or so.

 

[Spencer]

You must be either working very deep or using a small tractor, as an American machine similar to yours only took 150 hp to draw it to a depth of three foot or so.

Soil type have no influence ?

 

[DanniAgro]

Soil type have no influence ?

Fair comment - I watched some videos on the Rabaud site, and they showed subsoiler pipe layers in various soils and it was obvious that different soils made a big difference.

 

[nxy]

So you draw the subsoiler through the ground three times at progressively deeper levels until it’s deep enough to lay the pipe: is that correct? And at what depth are you typically laying it?
You must be either working very deep or using a small tractor, as an American machine similar to yours only took 150 hp to draw it to a depth of three foot or so.

We are aiming for around 80-90cm deep. First pass at half depth, second pass at full depth and the final pass laying the pipe.

We got to this through bitter experience over some 20 plus years.

Firstly the Rabaud machine is not fancy so you are relying on natural slopes. Once you tyres spin you dig a hole and your pipe will never be level to the surface because as you drop down so does your pipe. I honestly believe that if at any point your are struggling you will potentially be wasting your time.

Secondly we have plenty of granite boulders below the surface. You want to find them and alter your route before laying a pipe half way down a field, hitting a rock, coming to a standstill, raising the machine possibly all the way to the surface and creating a pipe fed spring.

Thirdly these machines move a lot more soil than a mole plough, perhaps someone somewhere pulls a mole plough at 3ft deep with 150Hp but I would say even if that's possible they might struggle with one of these. Even if I could lay the pipe in one pass I would still make three passes.

 

[nxy]

So you draw the subsoiler through the ground three times at progressively deeper levels until it’s deep enough to lay the pipe: is that correct? And at what depth are you typically laying it?
You must be either working very deep or using a small tractor, as an American machine similar to yours only took 150 hp to draw it to a depth of three foot or so.

One other point, the local professional firm laying pipes to the same depth as me using a subsoiler use a 500Hp drainer on steel tracks and when they start to struggle they bolt suit case sized lugs to the tracks to get traction. And then when they come to a standstill they put the 20t digger on the front and he uses his boom to pull them through a tough patch.

 

[brentnz]

Look at soil max gold digger plough, this is mine , using JD rtk gps to lay pipe accurately at 10 m spacing without gravel (although this is possible with the addition of a gravel box) I have drained 70 acres over the past 18 months, decided gravel was too expensive so laying pipes at 1 spacing rather than 20m with gravel, so far so good in good conditions we can drain 10 acres a day with 2 men plus a digger

Look at soil max gold digger plough, this is mine , using JD rtk gps to lay pipe accurately at 10 m spacing without gravel (although this is possible with the addition of a gravel box) I have drained 70 acres over the past 18 months, decided gravel was too expensive so laying pipes at 1 spacing rather than 20m with gravel, so far so good in good conditions we can drain 10 acres a day with 2 men plus a digger

JD receiver I get, but What grade control system are you running?

 

[Iben]

@Farm X

 

[Overwelly]

JD receiver I get, but What grade control system are you running?

we use the JD radio rtk signal to provide elevation data to an ag leader integra display and the intellislope software, you can pre plan the scheme or survey each run as you travel down the field to your start point and the software tells you if your depth and fall parameters can be met, is a fantastically easy system to use once you get going

 

[Brisel]

How do you get the vertical position with RTK? Satellites give the horizontal position but I don't see how you get a vertical one without a base station very close by.

Is it just from the gyroscope in the receiver?

 

[Overwelly]

How do you get the vertical position with RTK? Satellites give the horizontal position but I don't see how you get a vertical one without a base station very close by