Drilling OSR with sabre tines/coulters on a sumo subsoiler

[JCfarmer]

After hiring a 4m DTS and successfully drilling osr this year I am thinking of going back to drilling it with the subsoiler. We used to have an applicator on the back of the shakerator to spread it on before neonics ban. Now need to drill it at a consistant depth so went back to conventional sowing, subsoil low disturbance about 10" deep, carrier and then tine drill. Its nice to see it all germinate and come through about the same time to get mullered by flea beetle, slugs and then pigeons!!! But more time consuming and moisture loss hence hiring dts this year.
I now want to go back to one pass and use the subsoiler but leg spacings are 650mm thereabouts with the packer 3.25m. I have an 8 outlet stocks for avadex on the tine drill which I plan to use for the rape on the subsoiler so thinking staggering sabretines with coulters at 400mm apart before the main packer? Packer roller I should add is the old style, big flat roll with teeth on. Are sabretines capable of working at 6" depth? I have had a look at the weaving disc coulters fixed behind the packer but thinking no need and unessessary extra expense. When working out spacing, 2 of the sabretines (the first ones in from the outside ones)would sit in the middle behind subsoiler legs and may have to be in at 6" but all the others closer to the main legs and shallower perhaps?
I think it should be jobs a good un?? Thoughts and experiences welcome

 

[woodylane]

What’s the price difference between the sabre tines and the disc openers. We installed the weaving double discs last year and they transformed the establishment on the back of a Sumo Trio

 

[JCfarmer]

I don't know to be honest but was going use sabretine instead of double disk as I think we need some tilth and to loosen soil below the seed. Packer would firm the seed in easy enough.

 

[jonnyjon]

After hiring a 4m DTS and successfully drilling osr this year I am thinking of going back to drilling it with the subsoiler. We used to have an applicator on the back of the shakerator to spread it on before neonics ban. Now need to drill it at a consistant depth so went back to conventional sowing, subsoil low disturbance about 10" deep, carrier and then tine drill. Its nice to see it all germinate and come through about the same time to get mullered by flea beetle, slugs and then pigeons!!! But more time consuming and moisture loss hence hiring dts this year.
I now want to go back to one pass and use the subsoiler but leg spacings are 650mm thereabouts with the packer 3.25m. I have an 8 outlet stocks for avadex on the tine drill which I plan to use for the rape on the subsoiler so thinking staggering sabretines with coulters at 400mm apart before the main packer? Packer roller I should add is the old style, big flat roll with teeth on. Are sabretines capable of working at 6" depth? I have had a look at the weaving disc coulters fixed behind the packer but thinking no need and unessessary extra expense. When working out spacing, 2 of the sabretines (the first ones in from the outside ones)would sit in the middle behind subsoiler legs and may have to be in at 6" but all the others closer to the main legs and shallower perhaps?
I think it should be jobs a good un?? Thoughts and experiences welcome

Why go to all that trouble and expense, I scratch till, mix seed with some fertilizer and spin it on in 2 passes and rol. No insecticide, one herbicide and one fungicide at petal fall, if dry none, and combine. Over 2t acre if it's a good Osr year

 

[farmer steve]

We are thinking of adding disc coulters to our sumo for rape drilling. At the moment we just drop it out a pipe in front of the packer roller where the leg has been. We was thinking of going with sumo's own disc openers. Sounds like the weaving double disc might be worth considering @woodylane. Do you have the disc running exactly where the leg has been? Or slightly to the side of the leg?

 

[mki]

Pimp my subsoiler

 

[woodylane]

We are thinking of adding disc coulters to our sumo for rape drilling. At the moment we just drop it out a pipe in front of the packer roller where the leg has been. We was thinking of going with sumo's own disc openers. Sounds like the weaving double disc might be worth considering @woodylane. Do you have the disc running exactly where the leg has been? Or slightly to the side of the leg?

We had a look at the Sumo disc openers but they’re a lot more expensive, we run 8

units equally spaced as we thought the rows would be too widely spaced and would be easier for pigeons to land.

 

[mki]

View attachment 743888

Pimp my subsoiler

Result. My first year. A bit afraid because of 65cm subsoiler leg spacing. But duets was good solution in my opinion. Seed on side- not so competitive as in single line and smaller row spacing.

 

[JCfarmer]

View attachment 743888

Pimp my subsoiler

Are they sumo duet coulters and I take it you are placing fert with the seed?

 

[mki]

Are they sumo duet coulters and I take it you are placing fert with the seed?

I use Dutch openers 5” paired- so seed is on sides of subsoiler leg channel and narrows space between rows. In middle is fertilizer from front tank. It all was attached to subsoiler leg.

Pic yesterday . Have -10 C last nights.

 

[JCfarmer]

mki looks good and same principle as the DTS although on a 3m DTS there would be 9 legs. Are you happy with the spacing or can you use a wider duet coulter?

 

[mki]

mki looks good and same principle as the DTS although on a 3m DTS there would be 9 legs. Are you happy with the spacing or can you use a wider duet coulter?

First year. Next harvest will show- happy or not!
I think 5 was wider. Row spacing looks OK! In pic two different varieties and growth regulator doses - all rest the same.

 

[Brisel]

How about putting the tines either side of the leg so you're sowing into lifted soil? Blank off 3 of the 8 outlets on the Stocks then fit Y splitters to divide the seed above the subsoiler legs. No loss of seed down the cracks & the tines only need to place the seed into the already loosened soil which will reduce hp requirement.

I like the disc coulters behind the packer of accurate seed placement @woodylane why fit those tines behind the packer? Row cleaners for the discs? Do they block up much?

 

[woodylane]

How about putting the tines either side of the leg so you're sowing into lifted soil? Blank off 3 of the 8 outlets on the Stocks then fit Y splitters to divide the seed above the subsoiler legs. No loss of seed down the cracks & the tines only need to place the seed into the already loosened soil which will reduce hp requirement.

I like the disc coulters behind the packer of accurate seed placement @woodylane why fit those tines behind the packer? Row cleaners for the discs? Do they block up much?

When I first built it, I was worried that I’d have uneven emergence due to the ridge and furrow of the packa. So I put the tines on to knock the ridge down, this only works on the lighter ground and I get the same emergence on the heavier land where the ridges remain so I’ll take them off next year

 

[KB6930]

We are thinking of adding disc coulters to our sumo for rape drilling. At the moment we just drop it out a pipe in front of the packer roller where the leg has been. We was thinking of going with sumo's own disc openers. Sounds like the weaving double disc might be worth considering @woodylane. Do you have the disc running exactly where the leg has been? Or slightly to the side of the leg?

We do it the same as you and I find it better than the disc as it ends up in a 5-6 inch band so it covers the ground quicker in the winter

Only problem I get is in really light land it can bury some seed a bit too deep so the row is a bit patchy at times

I know someone who's put discs on behind and it certainly didn't miraculously increase his yields

 

[farmer steve]

We do it the same as you and I find it better than the disc as it ends up in a 5-6 inch band so it covers the ground quicker in the winter

Only problem I get is in really light land it can bury some seed a bit too deep so the row is a bit patchy at times

I know someone who's put discs on behind and it certainly didn't miraculously increase his yields

Every year seems to be different here (south lincolnshire) depending on the conditions. This year was certainly the worst with the ground being so dry. Several years ago we used to drill rape with a 6m rapid lift on the vaderstad drill, it was ok but soon bunged up badly in the wet. Then went back to stocks seeders on sumo's dropping it behind the leg. It works well when there's moisture and get rain after drilling. This year though not so good, not helped by flea beetle. We always take the discs out of sumo's for rape drilling as boss likes the low disturbance. Trouble is the legs even though they are low disturbance points can soon leave a open slot which then bakes out if it stays dry which is not great for rape chitting in. Doesn't help being on heavy land.

 

[KB6930]

Every year seems to be different here (south lincolnshire) depending on the conditions. This year was certainly the worst with the ground being so dry. Several years ago we used to drill rape with a 6m rapid lift on the vaderstad drill, it was ok but soon bunged up badly in the wet. Then went back to stocks seeders on sumo's dropping it behind the leg. It works well when there's moisture and get rain after drilling. This year though not so good, not helped by flea beetle. We always take the discs out of sumo's for rape drilling as boss likes the low disturbance. Trouble is the legs even though they are low disturbance points can soon leave a open slot which then bakes out if it stays dry which is not great for rape chitting in. Doesn't help being on heavy land.

I've never taken the discs out we like to work a bit of tilth onto the top then get in with the rollers asap to keep moisture in

 

[farmer steve]

I've never taken the discs out we like to work a bit of tilth onto the top then get in with the rollers asap to keep moisture in

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better with discs left in. Better seed to soil contact. We have wondered if the discs would throw too much soil over the seed though and cause it to be in too deep. We always tow a DD press behind trailed sumo and roll asap

 

[KB6930]

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better with discs left in. Better seed to soil contact. We have wondered if the discs would throw too much soil over the seed though and cause it to be in too deep. We always tow a DD press behind trailed sumo and roll asap

I'm using a mounted 3m 2015 trio and u can sit at up to 10k before the throw from the discs is too much there's another hole to shove the packer further back which would help but I've not felt the need yet

 

[Brisel]

Presumably moving the packer back would make it harder to lift?