DUPONT+ DOW, SYNGENTA+ MONSANTO?

[shakerator]

The first seems a done deal.
The second has been on the table for years but now seems 50/50.

How do you expect this consolidation to effect your agronomics going forwards ?

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere but if it hasn't i don't know why as these are massively important developments IMHO

 

[Rob Holmes]

I thought BASF were also interested in Syngenta?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-syngenta-ag-m-a-basf-se-idUKKCN0Q81QJ20150803

It'll be interesting, Monsanto want Syngenta for the chem side, BASF want it for the seed side

 

[franklin]

Two or three fert producers; two or three chem producers who will also buy up seed breeders; three of four supermarkets.

100,000 uk farmers.

Well done.

 

[shakerator]

Two or three fert producers; two or three chem producers who will also buy up seed breeders; three of four supermarkets.

100,000 uk farmers.

Well done.

Ban all older chemicals that a) work b) cannot be bred into a "stacked set of traits" as part of the crop production "system", which of course require your technology licence fee and prohibit saving

 

[B'o'B]

European legislators and farmers will be push towards accepting GM or going pretty much organic.

 

[franklin]

Its all the more reason for us farmers to try and co-operate together better, or we are going to be even more stuffed. Or accept the best use of our SFP would be to buy shares in supermarkets and ag-chem companies as at least we will be getting a dividend from being spit-roasted by them both.

 

[david]

Get rid of SFP - that would really shake up the farming industry - fert, chem, tractors, machinery, seed and rents would be a dam sight cheaper.

All SFP does is breed greed by all of the above.

 

[franklin]

You actually think then that if the EU / UK removed the SFP, that global fert and chem giants would cut their prices? Or tractor prices would fall?

 

[david]

You actually think then that if the EU / UK removed the SFP, that global fert and chem giants would cut their prices? Or tractor prices would fall?

Yes, because farmers won't have any money to by them. It's only recycled SFP that goes to all the greedy fert, chem, tractor, landlord, etc companies. And you've got to admit they done really well out of it !

But in reality it will never happen in Europe, as SFP keeps so many people employed with its administration.

 

[Renaultman]

Its all the more reason for us farmers to try and co-operate together better, or we are going to be even more stuffed. Or accept the best use of our SFP would be to buy shares in supermarkets and ag-chem companies as at least we will be getting a dividend from being spit-roasted by them both.

I already have a few shares in Morrisons that aren't making me very rich

 

[Renaultman]

Yes, because farmers won't have any money to by them. It's only recycled SFP that goes to all the greedy fert, chem, tractor, landlord, etc companies. And you've got to admit they done really well out of it !

But in reality it will never happen in Europe, as SFP keeps so many people employed with its administration.

Agree on both counts. Unfortunately.

 

[shakerator]

We would never farm the areas we do without them though (the basf's of this world) unless you employed seriously larger numbers of people,!which is still clearly prohibitive against the cost of using these products...

 

[devonshire farmer]

We would never farm the areas we do without them though (the basf's of this world) unless you employed seriously larger numbers of people,!which is still clearly prohibitive against the cost of using these products...

Don't think he meant not use them more the fact that they will still want to sell all the products to survive just at a more realistic price!

 

[Gong Farmer]

Confirmation announcement re Dow and DuPont has now been made, imaginatively to be called DowDuPont.

Perhaps Dow can get Salsa out now.

 

[Ebbage Seeds]

Get rid of SFP - that would really shake up the farming industry - fert, chem, tractors, machinery, seed and rents would be a dam sight cheaper.

All SFP does is breed greed by all of the above.

At this moment in time the Seeds Industry is in the same 'melting pot' as you guys. Margins are non-existent. Your cash-flows are shot to bits so you save on the one 'input' you dont have to buy (I dont have an issue with that - just stating fact). Seed price is based over the same commodity as you sell at the farm gate - were that value to drop in price, seed value would follow as it does currently. By all means have a dig at those companies where you have to buy in the resource and cannot manufacture it yourselves, but it is incorrect to 'tar' the Seeds Industry with the same 'brush' IMO.

 

[david]

Own wheat out of the pile, cleaned + SPD and royalty paid for £224 all in.

Quoted anywhere between £320 - £380 for certified seed, so some one was certainly making a margin !

I'm guessing that 'seed' wheat was being bought for what £20 premium over feed wheat ?

 

[Ebbage Seeds]

Own wheat out of the pile, cleaned + SPD and royalty paid for £224 all in.

Quoted anywhere between £320 - £380 for certified seed, so some one was certainly making a margin !

I'm guessing that 'seed' wheat was being bought for what £20 premium over feed wheat ?

Here are the costings of certified seed - approximately - they will vary for spring species over winter - let's assume Winter wheat - per tonne -
Base Price £120
Premium - £20
Screenings - £10 (and those screenings are pretty crap feed quality)
Haul In to plant - £15 - £20
Processing - £30
Bags - £8 - £12
SPD - £25 - £40
Haul out - £20 - £25
Royalty - we in the seed trade have to pay full royalty unlike you guys
Royalty - £80 - £90 (Skyfall by example £95 / an older variety like Scout by example would be £77)
Certification - £9

Spring varieties will be higher due to seed premium / royalty / crop losses in store (buying in to replace).

What is not included in the above costs and will have to be taken out of this massive margin you think we have are settlement costs - that's paying out agreed seed premium on varieties we have not sold as unlike many seed companies we offer firm seed contracts with committed tonnage premium. Labour costs / admin etc.

 

[franklin]

I can see that with winter wheat, but does that work with spring beans? Nice HC beans out of my shed worth £140/t. New recleaned seed considerably more than that. Most spring bean seed I have had to buy new has been much poorer quality than we sell for human consumption.

 

[Ebbage Seeds]

Royalties are higher, seed crop losses are greater too, processing is more fiddly due to the need to safeguard germination. Cost of seed crop - depends on the deal the grower has with his merchant. I can't really help you there in detail as we are only involved in the high grade stuff. Just as an aside the breeders seed coming in from EU can cost a small fortune and the physical quality can be horrendous. The Lynx seed by example last spring was in the 70's % germination with an equivalent appearance. However, once drilled it all grew and yielded just short of 8t/ha. So you are buying the genetic potential in seed rather than what it may be worth as a commodity.

 

[Feldspar]

We would never farm the areas we do without them though (the basf's of this world) unless you employed seriously larger numbers of people,!which is still clearly prohibitive against the cost of using these products...

As I said elsewhere, I saw an organic farm this Monday on fairly heavy clay with black-grass over about 3300ac. They had one Quadtrack, and two 180hp tractors. Grew about 2000ac of combinables with the rest having sheep, stewardship schemes or fertility building leys. Four full time people. Contractor in to do the harvesting. No sprayer, no spray shed, no fert spinner and no fert store. They get paid twice what we get for our wheat and aren't relying on a very small collection of companies to buy their inputs.