Economics of Lambing Inside

[Pasty]

200 twin ewes at 5/ac is 40ac. You can send them to a bigger field as soon as the lambs follow the mother. I start off with a higher stocking rate than that, then draft them off if they happen to be near one of the gates. Nothing to rigid, unless we have no grass growth at all, when drafting off to more grass becomes more pressing.

I've only got 40ac in total over 7 fields! Might have to have a re-think on numbers! Thank you.

 

[Six Dogs]

Ours would be just over 10% outside and just under 10% inside,just to confirm the obvious this includes aborted lambs,lambs lost due to having a dead ewe post scanning and any wet drys(ewes scanned in lamb then appear empty at the end).
So I take the no of lambs expected at scanning then record all the way through to weaning which I use as total lamb losses.
Just clarifying only so much pub talk about lambing,scanning %!

 

[Chimera]

200 twin ewes at 5/ac is 40ac. You can send them to a bigger field as soon as the lambs follow the mother. I start off with a higher stocking rate than that, then draft them off if they happen to be near one of the gates. Nothing to rigid, unless we have no grass growth at all, when drafting off to more grass becomes more pressing.

Same here, starting at nearer 15/ac and drafting when convenient. If everyone's alright I like to leave them be as long as possible

 

[exmoor dave]

DB blocks so similar . Having delivery tomorrow funnily enough ,but won't start feeding them until the end of the month. Liquid feed is brilliant stuff,we used DB sheeplic 21iirc. We've used it for years and was a bit worried about switching to blocks. After I had put out the 1st lot last year ,was talking to the rep and having a bit of a moan about how labour intensive it was he suggested to switch to the blocks. We use two different types and of what I remember the later ones have acetone in them so they break down some of their back fat to prevent twin lamb. Believe it or not we spent a little less on the blocks vs liquid feed,and it was one hell of a lot easier to feed the blocks. If you have a fair size tank and can feed the liquid out easy enough then it's not so bad(there was a thread on this about this time last year) but you need plenty of ball feeders. I'll let you know the 2 types tomorrow. Block prices are the same as last year. Have they gone up with you?

No about the same as last year, but with the cake having dropped and blocks being basically big lumps of cake, main ingredient is barley, I thought the blocks would drop a fair bit but they haven't.

Protein plus energy rumivite £430t

So we went for mole valley own brand at £80 a ton cheaper.
We mostly have them for the hill cattle but the ewe's get some post lambing as I won't put cake down for ewes with lambs, just can't stand the upheaval every day!

I'm abit concerned that the mole blocks aren't as weather proof, but the ewe's will probably gobble them too quick for that to be a problem.

 

[sherg]

A losses % doesn't really mean much its what your losing that counts, if your losing 10% of your singles you've got a bigger problem than if your losing 15% of your triplets

 

[neilo]

No about the same as last year, but with the cake having dropped and blocks being basically big lumps of cake, main ingredient is barley, I thought the blocks would drop a fair bit but they haven't.

Protein plus energy rumivite £430t

So we went for mole valley own brand at £80 a ton cheaper.
We mostly have them for the hill cattle but the ewe's get some post lambing as I won't put cake down for ewes with lambs, just can't stand the upheaval every day!

I'm abit concerned that the mole blocks aren't as weather proof, but the ewe's will probably gobble them too quick for that to be a problem.

Rumevite have always had the balance pretty good with hardness, IME. Tried lots of cheaper ones in the past and the only ones that were about the same were the DB 'Stockade' blocks. Most of the others are softer and. like you say, get gobbled up too quickly. A ton will last me 2 years now though, as I only ever use them for small bunches at odd times, so I get Rumevite.

 

[hilux]

No about the same as last year, but with the cake having dropped and blocks being basically big lumps of cake, main ingredient is barley, I thought the blocks would drop a fair bit but they haven't.

Protein plus energy rumivite £430t

So we went for mole valley own brand at £80 a ton cheaper.
We mostly have them for the hill cattle but the ewe's get some post lambing as I won't put cake down for ewes with lambs, just can't stand the upheaval every day!

I'm abit concerned that the mole blocks aren't as weather proof, but the ewe's will probably gobble them too quick for that to be a problem.

Have you used Mvf blocks before? Switched over to Mvf cake last year and was impressed how the ewes milked. Rep has been asking me to try their blocks,but as I don't get any problems with DB ,I'm very reluctant to switch even if they are a bit more.

 

[hillman]

Used pine shavings in the small pens for the triplets last year. Only clean out what is wet and any after birth then top up with handful of clean shavings for the next ewe. Sprinkle disinfectant powder as well. Difference in hygiene and time was huge. Saved having another person in the shed mucking out barrow loads of wet straw, made a big difference to amount of joint ill. Lamb twins and singles outside. Most important thing is nutrition before lambing IMO. Fit ewes lamb well inside or out if they have correct condition score. Lambing 3/4 texel outside at 1000feet. Thin ewes are what gives me most bother.

What was the disansfectant you used ?
What way did you water as thinking turned over bucket =mess ?

Interested as an option this year hence the questions

 

[CopperBeech]

W

Aye - its the idiots feck the job for us all...

It may well be different down south but up here these estates keep the land in hand for the subs - and fear of the Land Reform thats coming. They dont want to sell or lose land to a tenant so wont let out. They sure as hell dont want to farm either... but ag. land gains them TAX relief, which forrestry doesnt.

The door of oppertunity is ajar at present, but getting the legalities written down is hard going... if the EU/subs bubble bursts, there will be a hell of alot of farms go bust. The fall out will be naked land for all, but few steadings.

Extensive Dog and Stick farming.

Why couldn't it be intensive dog and stick farming?

 

[Nithsdale]

W

Why couldn't it be intensive dog and stick farming?

Speculation i guess.
If feed, ferts etc prices do not fall in reflection of the loss of subs (if they ever go - exit the EU, maybe?) then is it justifyable to be intensive? If land is cheap, larger numbers spread over a greater area with a less parasite burden, requiring less medicines and potentially no fert/feed will be more attractive, compared to higher numbers on less land needing ferts medicines and feed... especially if there is no steading of any use on the land (plenty estates round here have flattened yards, or let then fall down after deriliction).

 

[Orkneyboy]

Lambing %age plays a big part too. A guy that used to do the costings for MLC once told me that once flocks scan over 200%, they don't generally wean any more lambs, the losses just grow instead. I wouldn't disagree.

I couldn't agree more.

A couple of years ago we scanned at 218%, the following year we scanned at 189%.
Same sheep, same rams, same system, similar pish weather in typical orkney fields with no shelter whatsoever and black-backed gulls and hooded crows sitting on the fence posts, watching.
Approx 100 ewes / gimmers lambing outdoors both times.

We ended up with more live lambs when we scanned at 189%.

And I now sell nearly every ewe that is scanned with triplets in-lamb.
Get good money for them and I know they won't be here again the following year to have triplets again, and I won't have any of their daughters in the flock either.

I learnt an awful lot (the hard way) about outdoor lambing that year!
Scanning man was bemused when I had a bit of a grump on when we scanned well over 200% again two years ago...

 

[redcoo235]

What was the disansfectant you used ?
What way did you water as thinking turned over bucket =mess ?

Interested as an option this year hence the questions

Powdered disinfectant was a from downland, trade name-BIODRY about £25 a bag. We used BEDMAX pine savings (think they are meant for horse staples) Bought a pallet of 42 bales for £250. Used about half to do 80 small lambing pens which we lamb about 150 triplets in to and anything that comes in from the 500 outside ewes over 3 weeks. Water is done with 110mm soil pipe going through 2 lines of 40 pens. Pipes filled with an ibc at the top end so can fill the pipes quickly without the chance of flooding out the shed. Also means you can take the end caps off the pipes and flush them out otherwise they can get full of hay and crap. Used to use 5-6 bales of barley straw at £10 a bale so maybe at most £100 dearer on the shavings but would save an hour or two everyday mucking out pens.

 

[neilo]

I couldn't agree more.

A couple of years ago we scanned at 218%, the following year we scanned at 189%.
Same sheep, same rams, same system, similar pish weather in typical orkney fields with no shelter whatsoever and black-backed gulls and hooded crows sitting on the fence posts, watching.
Approx 100 ewes / gimmers lambing outdoors both times.

We ended up with more live lambs when we scanned at 189%.

And I now sell nearly every ewe that is scanned with triplets in-lamb.
Get good money for them and I know they won't be here again the following year to have triplets again, and I won't have any of their daughters in the flock either.

I learnt an awful lot (the hard way) about outdoor lambing that year!
Scanning man was bemused when I had a bit of a grump on when we scanned well over 200% again two years ago...

My old scanner man used to sell all his triplets too, making good money to lose the hard work and losses.

 

[Penmoel]

This is our shed put up over 30 years ago under FHDS scheme, after grant I think it cost about £1,000 all in feeders and all under standard costs.
It was a kit from Evans Adfa Newtown,@Kevtherev will know them. I know of at least 4 of these buildings in this area. Some of the uprights could do with changing now and we put new walk through feeders and barriers in.

Originally built for 400 ewes, 16 pens of 25 and a 12 wide feed passage. Did have over 600 in one year with dry hoggs.

Also last year added a 20' lean to down one side shed is now 120' x 72'

 

[Beef farmer]

@Frank-the-Wool eating breakfast, and see some farmer talking about magical grass on BBC 1.

 

[Nithsdale]

This is our shed put up over 30 years ago under FHDS scheme, after grant I think it cost about £1,000 all in feeders and all under standard costs.
It was a kit from Evans Adfa Newtown,@Kevtherev will know them. I know of at least 4 of these buildings in this area. Some of the uprights could do with changing now and we put new walk through feeders and barriers in.

Originally built for 400 ewes, 16 pens of 25 and a 12 wide feed passage. Did have over 600 in one year with dry hoggs.

Also last year added a 20' lean to down one side shed is now 120' x 72'View attachment 262872 View attachment 262874

Looks good - wish i could put a shed up for £1000

Is the floor earth? Think id prefer earth to concrete for lambing on - even if it is not as handy to muck-out.

 

[Penmoel]

Looks good - wish i could put a shed up for £1000

Is the floor earth? Think id prefer earth to concrete for lambing on - even if it is not as handy to muck-out.

The centre passage is concreted, the pens are on shale/ gravel.
The lean to last year cost more than the whole building 30 years ago.

From memory I think the kit was about £5k plus putting it up some concrete, blocking and doors camein at about £8000 all in. There was something like 30% grant on standard cost a totally enclosed general purpose building at about £21,000.

Should have done it twice the size!

 

[Kevtherev]

This is our shed put up over 30 years ago under FHDS scheme, after grant I think it cost about £1,000 all in feeders and all under standard costs.
It was a kit from Evans Adfa Newtown,@Kevtherev will know them. I know of at least 4 of these buildings in this area. Some of the uprights could do with changing now and we put new walk through feeders and barriers in.

Originally built for 400 ewes, 16 pens of 25 and a 12 wide feed passage. Did have over 600 in one year with dry hoggs.

Also last year added a 20' lean to down one side shed is now 120' x 72'View attachment 262872 View attachment 262874

Yes G&T Evans are still going strong they have a sawmill and yard on the Llanidloes road