ELMS trying to cash starve farms into closure!!!!!!

[Sid]

I went to a meeting yesterday discussing a land use framework for Devon. It started with a slide showing the governments National priorities for land use, around 10-12 of them. Not one of them mentioned food production.
Pretty much summed up what we’re up against.

No,but out of those how many can farmers deliver?
There are 12, apart from coastline and urban we can deliver in every area.

I did a presentation online for Devon, 180 odd dialled in from various councils, SWW,FC,DWT,etc.
I made it very clear that farming goes hand in hand with this.
I have a slide about the various areas it lists, maybe in here somewhere

Devon Nature Recovery Network - Devon Local Nature Partnership

What is a Nature Recovery Network? The Wildlife Trusts describe a Nature Recovery Network (NRN) as a joined-up system of places (habitats) important for wild plants and animals, on land and at sea. It will provide the habitats that wildlife needs … <a...

www.devonlnp.org.uk

 

[Wood field]

The one thing we should all do and that is also to go on strike and show this government that we do stand as one, they should acknowledge where their food comes from and appreciate what farmers actually do for this country and the people who live here.

Sorry my friend , but farmers stick together? Not happening
Two things I have said from the start
1. They want to de stock the hills
2. As much as I support the bfu , an actual “trade type “ union won’t work

 

[soapsud]

Start doing the numbers, because the DEFRA committee has.
I know it is not fair that we have to do more than just sit around talking to each other about figures, but they don't. In fact they get paid for it. So let's step up and try and see what it is that they are really thinking.
First point of discussion: Are their conclusions summed up on an Excel spreadsheet?

If YES, then what are the column headings and what ball park figures can we estimate?

A big one of them is going to be future total persons employed and what can they offer to the massively commercialised education sector in terms of student placements and the wage levels needed to attract entrants to the various courses offered.

Another column is going to be total sector debt. Never underestimate how important this is in terms of derivative securitisation for the credit markets (a huge part of UK plc turnover).

With these two Domestic Product categories (as credits on one side of the balance sheet) the ratio to total support program debits could, and likely would, be used as a comparison for their performance as a government dept by the Ministers.

ELMS is probably targeted at the type of farmer who has a high quotient of debt and higher educational employee needs.
It is not necessarily a bad thing, be it that livestock farmers somehow have to jump through these hoops as certainly as the arable sector can.

Every livestock farm needs an on-site geneticist and a state of the art laboratory built with private sector debt (business services and finance category), right?

You want to play farmer in a GDP targeting economy? Then target your GDP potential and the state's favour will follow.

Not wishing to Cathy Newman you but ...
Are you saying that farms in too much debt will most likely take the Shilling and thus become less productive and therefore more environmental - those very farms that are run by the most entreprenial, calculated risk taking types of all of us?

 

[aangus]

Sorry my friend , but farmers stick together? Not happening
Two things I have said from the start
1. They want to de stock the hills
2. As much as I support the bfu , an actual “trade type “ union won’t work

I know farmers won’t stick together, not if there’s a shilling to be made

 

[Wood field]

I know farmers won’t stick together, not if there’s a shilling to be made

Maybe, it’s a thought , the Bfu starts s livestock section,

 

[soapsud]

Quite clear after this week ref the new SFI scheme news that the Gov's clear agenda is to destroy the UK livestock industry and replace it with imported food...

And we know how well destroying the UK energy producing industry and being reliant on imports instead has ended up...................

Good analogy with another basic necessity!
An over-populated island depending more and more on imported food will mean much higher prices. Our own farmers may well benefit from this free marketeering if they can hang on. The question simply beomes how long will cheap imported food continue.

 

[livestock 1]

Blair agreed to get rid of a big proportion of stock in the 90’s later we know what happened in 2001
Makes you wonder

 

[Wood field]

Good analogy with another basic necessity!
An over-populated island depending more and more on imported food will mean much higher prices. Our own farmers may well benefit from this free marketeering if they can hang on. The question simply beomes how long will cheap imported food continue.

Only until they get us out of the way, then the price will rocket.
I remember from my engineering days of working in dairies and on farm bottling, a certain company spread north from the Southampton area , undercutting all they could until they cornered the market, then up went the prices

 

[soapsud]

Only until they get us out of the way, then the price will rocket.
I remember from my engineering days of working in dairies and on farm bottling, a certain company spread north from the Southampton area , undercutting all they could until they cornered the market, then up went the prices

Yep. Gov.uk is using international price fixing markets to kill its own home food producers in the name of green washing. Huge estates and tiny farms will survive. It's what happens to the best farmers in the middle that matters.

 

[hally]

The one thing we should all do and that is also to go on strike and show this government that we do stand as one, they should acknowledge where their food comes from and appreciate what farmers actually do for this country and the people who live here.

Good point, none of us were sat on our arses on furlough during the pandemic or on strike as 8% pay rise isn’t good enough, and this is the gratitude we get.

 

[T Hectares]

I’ve said it before on here, but one of best shows of strength is to not sign up to ELM’s
This will cause more grief to DEFRA than anything else as they need to deliver a high percentage of farms signed up to deliver or else they’ve failed
On the other hand, the latest raft of options look some sensible tweaks to existing CS options, which is what lots of us said before, that CS with a few tweaks was set up to deliver better than what first proposed through elms, maybe they do listen…
I’ll sit on the fence until we see what the CS+ options are this spring and what else is added to ELM’s

As for @Bossfarmer original post, elms atm looks like delivering 60% less than the full bps and mid tier stewardship did for us as a mainly arable farm and we need to deliver more ( ie Cost us more to deliver ) we’ve know for many years that elms isn’t a BPS replacement, we’ve known we will have to deliver more, I’m not sure any of this is a great surprise is it ? Maybe it is if you haven’t listening or have brushed this all away in the wake of a couple of good years largely due to a war, in about 3 years time I think the sh*t is going to hit the fan in uk AG when commodities drop lower and costs stay high and the supports all but gone
What you need to do is put your business in a position to survive before this hits in rather than expect gov to hand out cash

 

[devonbeef]

for having your hands tied for peanuts and potential grief ,i do not see it makes sense to sign.
Not to mention the EXTRA work.

 

[soapsud]

I’ve said it before on here, but one of best shows of strength is to not sign up to ELM’s
This will cause more grief to DEFRA than anything else as they need to deliver a high percentage of farms signed up to deliver or else they’ve failed
On the other hand, the latest raft of options look some sensible tweaks to existing CS options, which is what lots of us said before, that CS with a few tweaks was set up to deliver better than what first proposed through elms, maybe they do listen…
I’ll sit on the fence until we see what the CS+ options are this spring and what else is added to ELM’s

As for @Bossfarmer original post, elms atm looks like delivering 60% less than the full bps and mid tier stewardship did for us as a mainly arable farm and we need to deliver more ( ie Cost us more to deliver ) we’ve know for many years that elms isn’t a BPS replacement, we’ve known we will have to deliver more, I’m not sure any of this is a great surprise is it ? Maybe it is if you haven’t listening or have brushed this all away in the wake of a couple of good years largely due to a war, in about 3 years time I think the sh*t is going to hit the fan in uk AG when commodities drop lower and costs stay high and the supports all but gone
What you need to do is put your business in a position to survive before this hits in rather than expect gov to hand out cash

Mothballing arable is easy. Livestock not so much.
I wish other TFFers would repeat themselves on here more often. Some of us have just come on board and are still learning.

 

[Billboy1]

the cost of implementing this and people to run it would be interesting know on a total uk acerage basis

 

[The Seeker]

You do know you don’t actually have to go on struck to go on strike in this day and age ?? You just ring the news papers and say farmers are striking on whatever date over the government’s handling of the ag system and the papers will put it out and it might get the word across . That’s how you strike nowerdays

 

[milkloss]

You do know you don’t actually have to go on struck to go on strike in this day and age ?? You just ring the news papers and say farmers are striking on whatever date over the government’s handling of the ag system and the papers will put it out and it might get the word across . That’s how you strike nowerdays

You mean we don't get a chance to fling some sh1t about and get rid of some tyres and plastic?

sounds boring.

 

[Muddyroads]

Farmers will strike, but not in the conventional way. When a farmer strikes he shuts down an enterprise because it’s no longer viable, so instead of the strike lasting a day or two it will last for months or years until there is a reason to start it up again, if that day ever comes. Striking farmers will be far more serious for the country than any current industrial action.

 

[The Seeker]

Yeah but effective , just ring lbc news and say farmers will strike 6th March for one day , job done

 

[The Seeker]

They don’t think like us at all hence why you have to put a day on it

 

[010101]

Not wishing to Cathy Newman you but ...
Are you saying that farms in too much debt will most likely take the Shilling and thus become less productive and therefore more environmental - those very farms that are run by the most entreprenial, calculated risk taking types of all of us?

Thanks for the reply.
It is a topsy-turvy world. Being in a serviceable level of debt is certainly what is wanted from all asset owners, not just farmers. What is serviceable obviously varies with interest rates. I think it is pernicious, but it seems that the complexity of the neo-keynesian argument appeals almost none to the curiosity of busy manual working farmers. It is a shame because it means they are taking water pistols to a gunfight in their economic activities.