Employing self employed people

[Jack Russell]

Evening,
We seem to be employing or using more self employed people for seasonal work. We have always just taken their invoice and paid as we go along. All nice and simple but now we are being told we need to see copies of their insurance. I assume that’ll be the public liability insurance? Does anyone else do this?

 

[betweenthelines]

You'd be a fool not to.

If they do anything that injures someone or causes damage to property, you can claim off their insurance. I'd also want to see any training certificates eg loader or forklift.

 

[Jack Russell]

Cheers
We have always had the training certificates etc for the relevant jobs. Just not the insurance.

 

[RAW24]

You need to check that their liability insurance includes an indemnity to principals clause. So that you are protected if sued as a result of their actions.

 

[Brisel]

My employer has just hired Safe Contractor as a scheme. SC charge both contractor and us for admin. They obtain proficiency/qualification certificates and liability insurance paperwork. Some of my one man bands are grumbling but most of those don't have the right paperwork anyway!

The problem with the certification schemes is that there are a multitude of providers and the costs rack up pretty quickly. One building contractor is paying thousands each year into 4 other schemes so wasn't happy about being asked to join a fifth.

 

[itsalwaysme]

My employer has just hired Safe Contractor as a scheme. SC charge both contractor and us for admin. They obtain proficiency/qualification certificates and liability insurance paperwork. Some of my one man bands are grumbling but most of those don't have the right paperwork anyway!

The problem with the certification schemes is that there are a multitude of providers and the costs rack up pretty quickly. One building contractor is paying thousands each year into 4 other schemes so wasn't happy about being asked to join a fifth.

What does this "Safe Contractor" scheme do apart from "obtain" certificates etc.

 

[case 5140]

I was told your insurance need to cover them if they are using your kit,if they bring their own kit they cover it,but they are working on you place so you will need cover too.

 

[graham99]

My employer has just hired Safe Contractor as a scheme. SC charge both contractor and us for admin. They obtain proficiency/qualification certificates and liability insurance paperwork. Some of my one man bands are grumbling but most of those don't have the right paperwork anyway!

The problem with the certification schemes is that there are a multitude of providers and the costs rack up pretty quickly. One building contractor is paying thousands each year into 4 other schemes so wasn't happy about being asked to join a fifth.

the only growth area in the west is paper work

 

[graham99]

What does this "Safe Contractor" scheme do apart from "obtain" certificates etc.

spend your money so you don't have to pay as much tax

 

[dazza b]

I was told your insurance need to cover them if they are using your kit,if they bring their own kit they cover it,but they are working on you place so you will need cover too.

My insurance told me this as well they said if I’m using someone else’s equipment it’s there insurance not mine

 

[thesilentone]

Competency and liability !!

Being self-employed and having insurance for the kit and public liability is one thing, having competence certification to operate the kit is another.

If ' employed ' or 'contracted ' you need both !! having no competence certification MAY result in a refusal OR much reduced claim if needed.

Can of worms this - many lads brought in for seasonal driving jobs, are not insured....

 

[Brisel]

What does this "Safe Contractor" scheme do apart from "obtain" certificates etc.

https://www.safecontractor.com/

Having records of current tickets is most of it. It's a backside covering scheme so higher management can sleep soundly knowing the paperwork is in order. Not cheap but then again, what's the cost of something going wrong by someone not covered by the relevant bit pf paper??

 

[itsalwaysme]

https://www.safecontractor.com/

Having records of current tickets is most of it. It's a backside covering scheme so higher management can sleep soundly knowing the paperwork is in order. Not cheap but then again, what's the cost of something going wrong by someone not covered by the relevant bit pf paper??

I can't see any mention of cost, but if I was a contractor working for you without any problems the only way I'd join a "scheme" like that is at your expense otherwise you can stick your job
Personally as long as insurances etc are in place I can't see any need for stuff like that, at times I think we (the population) are the foolish ones for going along with all these scams, sorry "schemes"
My local garage has been a member of these "good garage" type schemes, can't see they gain anything from it other than some shiny leaflets on the counter, no body really seems that interested in them, and in a couple of years another one seems to appear offering something "better"
As for the builder you mentioned paying "thousands" into these schemes, I would rather have less work and not need to earn those "thousands"

 

[Brisel]

I would rather have less work and not need to earn those "thousands"

If you don't join a scheme, you won't get any work for the bigger firms, so you'll get one of your wishes!

Seriously, I fail to see how this kind of thing adds much value other than a bigger and more costly paper trail. Thanks to the litigious society we all live in we have to have a paper trail to show we're covered for something going wrong even though the ambulance chasers will probably get a payout on the basis that "here's 10 grand and fudge off" is cheaper than a fight in a court

Talking of compliance schemes, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Red Tractor yet

 

[itsalwaysme]

If you don't join a scheme, you won't get any work for the bigger firms, so you'll get one of your wishes!

Seriously, I fail to see how this kind of thing adds much value other than a bigger and more costly paper trail. Thanks to the litigious society we all live in we have to have a paper trail to show we're covered for something going wrong even though the ambulance chasers will probably get a payout on the basis that "here's 10 grand and fudge off" is cheaper than a fight in a court

Talking of compliance schemes, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Red Tractor yet

But these schemes only exist because people join them, if no contractor or tradesman joined them, you would still need someone to do the work, as you say it just adds more to the paper trail, how do you or I know this "safe contractor" thing is genuine, they could just take a load of subscriptions and disappear, just out of interest if the sh!t did hit the fan where would they be, I bet they've got plenty of small print.
There seems to be an awful lot of "made up jobs" these days, people who don't actually "do" anything (other than shuffle paper)

 

[Brisel]

We've checked out Alcumus who run this one. No guarantee that they won't go pop but they've been around for a long time & the accounts look ok.

Point taken. If everyone refused they'd have no such schemes. That's not going to happen though, is it? Look at the Red Tractor. We could all go tell them to get stuffed & cancel our direct debits but not enough will stand together to do so.

 

[Woolly]

So are we saying that Employee Liability may not cover contractors/self employed?

How do we know what contractor certificates etc, we need to check?

 

[thesilentone]

So are we saying that Employee Liability may not cover contractors/self employed?

How do we know what contractor certificates etc, we need to check?

When any contractor is procured for any service, they must be competent and insured, employers liability (from the buyer) does not usually cover contracted services or labour, UNLESS you have specifically added this as an extra.

In addition, the competency element is covered by the H&S at work regulations, and even though you employ the services of a contractor you MAY be liable for any H&S issues that may arise (most think all liability sits with the contractor)

Therefore, ensuring all those working as contractors for you are competent is partially your responsibility and part of the terms of the contract.

This will cost your contractor more, therefore his prices will be higher than the cowboys who take risks.

If your own Public Liability covers all those contracted to work for you, it is even more on your shoulders to ensure they are competent and fully up to speed on risk assessment, ppi and H&S pertinent to the job to be done.

This is not new, this has been the case for decades !!!

 

[watcher72]

Following on this thread, what happens if a self employed person causes damage to the equipment they are using. Who pays for the damage caused for say a tyre caught on a drawbar?

 

[Sharpy]

The person who is paying the self employed person. Just the same as an employee.