End of the Road for Small Livestock Farms?

[An Gof]

“Fairly”?
Small farms need it, big farms dont
Huge estates certainly dont need it.

The chip on your shoulder hasn’t got any smaller

 

[glasshouse]

If that's aimed at me I wasn't getting any subsidy, I was just milking cows for the CWS. Never had any subsidy for most of my time farming until SFP came in.

Where on cws?

 

[An Gof]

Yes I agree that supply and demand are the drivers, but subsidies distort the supply.
Transport is no longer "cheap" the price of containers is almost 4 x higher than before the pandemic. Air freight has been temporarily cheap but now rising fast. Passengers subsidised air freight!!

The price of oil is at long last rising and politicians with a green agenda will be loathe to prevent it, the G7 have agreed to stop all coal power.

The farmer in Morocco of course sells to individuals or local abattoir, it is the % of money spent on food that is so dramatically different and the priority given to food. And of course no crippling overhead costs from people with clipboards!!

Not sure about livestock in Morococo but grain price is underwritten by government as is the price of the bread.

 

[teslacoils]

If your business only survives because it is subsidised by the taxpayer or by earnings in another sector then surely it is a poor business model?

Rail, healthcare, buses, aviation, most businesses in deprived areas, all banks since 2007. Govt help is not just in ag.

 

[glasshouse]

The chip on your shoulder hasn’t got any smaller

Sod off

 

[An Gof]

All farmhouses cottages and buildings should have a section 75 slapped on them to keep them only for agricultural people.

And what good is that if the job doesn’t pay? Are you mad?

 

[livestock 1]

I could see which way this discussion was heading
As soon as everyone gets locked into the bps discussion it all becomes a big argument
One question to consider is this as an example
If two separate haulage companies doing the same job with the same gear and both similarly knowledgable and both have similar levels of integrity are exactly the same apart from company A pays £1 per litre for fuel and company B pays 80p a litre for fuel what does anyone think will happen?

 

[jendan]

Not sure about livestock in Morococo but grain price is underwritten by government as is the price of the bread.

Whats the story behind your handle? Just looked it up on Wiki. Very interesting.Is the organisation still going,burning St.George flags etc?

 

[jendan]

I could see which way this discussion was heading
As soon as everyone gets locked into the bps discussion it all becomes a big argument
One question to consider is this as an example
If two separate haulage companies doing the same job with the same gear and both similarly knowledgable and both have similar levels of integrity are exactly the same apart from company A pays £1 per litre for fuel and company B pays 80p a litre for fuel what does anyone think will happen?

Company A fails,and Company B buys them out?

 

[glasshouse]

And what good is that if the job doesn’t pay? Are you mad?

Should we just burn the holiday homes like your countrymen then?

 

[livestock 1]

Company A fails,and Company B buys them out?

Yes that’s one answer

 

[lloyd]

Pigs and Poultry have always been boom and bust . Dad told me that in 1965 when he packed them both in and specialised in dairy

Broiler chickens seem to have had a great 30 year run in this county.

 

[livestock 1]

Company A fails,and Company B buys them out?

The main point is company B can do it cheaper than company A
This is the same effect sub has on a business sector (in my opinion)

 

[glasshouse]

Broiler chickens seem to have had a great 30 year run in this county.

Marshalls went bust, so did grampian

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

That my friend, is just tough.

It is the harsh reality of industrialised food production. The price keeps dropping, though not in the shops of course, and as time goes by, only bigger units can produce at a profit.

I would rather have had 10 neighbours making a go of 50 acres rather than one who farms 500. There'll soon be hardly any of us left.

 

[CopperBeech]

I would argue that the 500 acre farm has a greater ability to manage the land for the good of all. Its no coincidence that all of the things like grey partridge schemes etc tend to happen on large estates with scale and finances to make it happen. If you have 50 acres, you struggle to let 10-20 acre go to wild flowers for birds and bees, but if you owned 500, its more viable. Sorry!

 

[jellybean]

Where on cws?

Down Ampney Estate

 

[jendan]

I would argue that the 500 acre farm has a greater ability to manage the land for the good of all. Its no coincidence that all of the things like grey partridge schemes etc tend to happen on large estates with scale and finances to make it happen. If you have 50 acres, you struggle to let 10-20 acre go to wild flowers for birds and bees, but if you owned 500, its more viable. Sorry!

Thats a nonsense argument. You can get the same % acreage for eco schemes on small as well as big.

 

[CopperBeech]

Thats a nonsense argument. You can get the same % acreage for eco schemes on small as well as big.

No its not. Consistent management of ground over larger averages has been proven to be more successful. If small farms work together to achieve joint goals, then it is indeed the same.

For example, if you manage to get a breeding covey of grey partridge (just using my original example) on 50 acres, they are more likely to stray off or be pushed off your ground and potentially shot, than if you ave them on 5000 acres.

Im not slagging small farms off, but any form of land management or environmental management is more successful and has greater impact when done at scale. Also financially, it is often more viable on larger units.

 

[unlacedgecko]

No its not. Consistent management of ground over larger averages has been proven to be more successful. If small farms work together to achieve joint goals, then it is indeed the same.

For example, if you manage to get a breeding covey of grey partridge (just using my original example) on 50 acres, they are more likely to stray off or be pushed off your ground and potentially shot, than if you ave them on 5000 acres.

Im not slagging small farms off, but any form of land management or environmental management is more successful and has greater impact when done at scale. Also financially, it is often more viable on larger units.

Much more chance of properly paid employment and promotion on large units as well.

10 flocks of 800 ewes will have 10 shepherds.

1 flock of 8,000 ewes maybe have 4 shepherds, an assistant manager and a manager.