eu after a brexit?

[RJ1]

This debate has been had, about 5x over now, the rules come from the eu, if there is no eu driving the rules, there is none, other than the ones we lobby for ourselves, some on here for some reason think that basic common sense rules, should not apply to them, and so call this red tape applied by our own government, some people can't behave and have to be regulated i.e spreading ridiculous amounts of muck on a small area and polluting the local water courses, that's a simple matter of life, as for the civil servants having nothing to do, george osborne has a good way of sorting that, he is running an austerity program designed to shrink the state to the smallest it's been in donkey's years, there is no room for lame ducks

Or you could stay in the eu, have very little say and have more rules that our government has to apply, austerity or not, or they will get fined massively, hmmm

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that the red tape does stop and that the UK administrations do all they can to help our industry and others which actually make physical things if there was to be a Brexit. The only difference is that you have more confidence of that happening that I do.

 

[Turboman]

It would be just about justifiable to cope with all the red tape if all eu states abided by the rules. Unfortunately they don't.

I have travelled extensively around the eu in recent years mostly on agricultural trips and on business. It is appallingly shocking what some Eu farmers get away with when it comes to abiding SFP rules. The sad thing is we are funding a lot of these farmers particularly the eastern states to become more efficient only to compete with our own markets.

At least if we leave the Eu we will effectively reduce their budget and then hold our own Elected MP's accountable for any daft red tape legislation.

 

[caveman]

About the lamest argument for staying in is that if we leave we will still have the same amount of red tape.
Haha.
If we leave we may even have more.
So what?
That's what those in power impose on us.
Remember Cameroon promising to cut red tape and quangos?
Your time is nearly up Dodgey Dave.
Kinnock and Junker still have their jobs for life though.

 

[RJ1]

About the lamest argument for staying in is that if we leave we will still have the same amount of red tape.
Haha.
If we leave we may even have more.
So what?
That's what those in power impose on us.
Remember Cameroon promising to cut red tape and quangos?
Your time is nearly up Dodgey Dave.
Kinnock and Junker still have their jobs for life though.

I don't think it's an argument for staying in at all. I more of a reality check for those who think the rules will disappear. Some are of course completely daft and I hope that I would be proved wrong, but I just can't see it happening nor it being a priority.

 

[Wastexprt]

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that the red tape does stop and that the UK administrations do all they can to help our industry and others which actually make physical things if there was to be a Brexit.

I can't see regulations reducing, globally countries are adopting EU rules as they are seen as the right thing to do, even China is accepting that in order to be taken seriously from an environmental perspective it needs to clean up it's act. Also if we want to trade with the EU, won't we have to comply with their Regulations? Speaking to a Dr. in environmental law and she believes that it could take decades to unpick all our legislation. So although environmental lawyers may want to stay in the EU there will be plenty of work for them in decades to come if we leave.

 

[JohnGalway]

it'll probably try and function on for a while,pricing itself out of the market, hoping to grow via the inclusion of turkey, bosnia etc in it's own isolationist block, while the big growth markets of india etc overtake the whole eu block while the eu is scrambling round to arrange a free trade deal with them with 28 other countries squabbling.

Sigh

Sure last year and the previous wasn't it the BRICS who were going to take over the world, and where are they now?
Brazil in political turmoil
Russia in international isolation
India........?
China has jammed on the brakes
South Africa?

Always the sky is falling with the EU, yet it's still here, what happened to Grexit and Greece killing the Euro, any day now wasn't it?........

 

[Wastexprt]

Sigh

Sure last year and the previous wasn't it the BRICS who were going to take over the world, and where are they now?
Brazil in political turmoil
Russia in international isolation
India........?
China has jammed on the brakes
South Africa?

Always the sky is falling with the EU, yet it's still here, what happened to Grexit and Greece killing the Euro, any day now wasn't it?........

I wonder if the objective of trading with BRICS is fundamentally flawed. Those developing nations initially require low cost services that they are often best placed to provide themselves, so surely we should be increasing our skill base for high tech industries to deliver in to developed nations, such as the EU? Look at our steel industry, we have to import the ore to manufacture the steel so we are at a cost disadvantage from the start and then we export the steel. Surely we should be specialising in specialist steels in to specialist markets?

As has been mentioned elsewhere regarding 'gold plating' of EU regulations, that is our Governments fault, even Regulations (from a waste perspective) can profoundly alter amongst the home nations, yet they are all EU Directive derived. We are moving away from a Regulatory based system (although I'm not sure what happened to the 'bonfire of the quangos') and some Regulations are being relaxed by the current Government. But how much of our current Regulatory system is needed to continue to trade, not only with the EU, but also with any other nation should we leave?

I agree that the EU has it's issues, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater do we?

 

[RobFZS]

Sigh

Sure last year and the previous wasn't it the BRICS who were going to take over the world, and where are they now?
Brazil in political turmoil
Russia in international isolation
India........?
China has jammed on the brakes
South Africa?

Always the sky is falling with the EU, yet it's still here, what happened to Grexit and Greece killing the Euro, any day now wasn't it?........

Countries going through recessions, who'd have thunk it

Yeh because the issues with greece have been solved? the can has been kicked down the road and it will be back to rear it's ugly head, once again. http://europe.newsweek.com/next-greece-crisis-coming-449410?rm=eu

You know the jobs fvcked when the guy that runs it all, say's the eu controls too much of people's lives, If there was any reform to the eu, it would have been done by now, or not even left to get in that position in the first place, it's just lip service, they knew what they were doing when they drew up the treaties and the promise of jam tomorrow, keeps you in, reminds me abit of first milk.

 

[JohnGalway]

Countries going through recessions, who'd have thunk it

Yeh because the issues with greece have been solved? the can has been kicked down the road and it will be back to rear it's ugly head, once again. http://europe.newsweek.com/next-greece-crisis-coming-449410?rm=eu

You know the jobs fvcked when the guy that runs it all, say's the eu controls too much of people's lives, If there was any reform to the eu, it would have been done by now, or not even left to get in that position in the first place, it's just lip service, they knew what they were doing when they drew up the treaties and the promise of jam tomorrow, keeps you in, reminds me abit of first milk.

Point being the doomsday cult were roaring about Greek collapse, yet even with the migrant influx on their borders has it happened? No.

Sure he can't win. If he doesn't change things people give out EU is too invasive. If he tries to change things people give out he's backpedaling.

I am quite happy with some EU interference, as I wouldn't trust Irish regulators, lobbyists, or politicians as far as I could throw them.

 

[JohnGalway]

I wonder if the objective of trading with BRICS is fundamentally flawed. Those developing nations initially require low cost services that they are often best placed to provide themselves, so surely we should be increasing our skill base for high tech industries to deliver in to developed nations, such as the EU? Look at our steel industry, we have to import the ore to manufacture the steel so we are at a cost disadvantage from the start and then we export the steel. Surely we should be specialising in specialist steels in to specialist markets?

As has been mentioned elsewhere regarding 'gold plating' of EU regulations, that is our Governments fault, even Regulations (from a waste perspective) can profoundly alter amongst the home nations, yet they are all EU Directive derived. We are moving away from a Regulatory based system (although I'm not sure what happened to the 'bonfire of the quangos') and some Regulations are being relaxed by the current Government. But how much of our current Regulatory system is needed to continue to trade, not only with the EU, but also with any other nation should we leave?

I agree that the EU has it's issues, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater do we?

There was an interesting TED talk with the former finance minister of Greece, the Marxist motorcycle riding one. In it he said that capitalism would be the end of democracy, it's well worth watching. I somewhat agree, in terms of globalisation. Look at the advantages "The West" had in terms of technology and industry and it was boxed up and shipped off to the East to, frankly, some unfriendly countries. Progress how are you.

The problem now isn't who will do the high tech jobs, it's what will people who can, for whatever reason only manage lower skill work do now because of globalisation and automation? By it's nature specialisation can only employ a limited number of people. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be a part of the bigger picture, it absolutely should, but the "masses" have been bent over to the benefit of the wealthy.

As for quangos, what's the worth of a politicians promise?

 

[Wastexprt]

There was an interesting TED talk with the former finance minister of Greece, the Marxist motorcycle riding one. In it he said that capitalism would be the end of democracy, it's well worth watching.

As for quangos, what's the worth of a politicians promise?

I'll have look for it, thank you. I found the BBC programme that Simon Reeve did about Greece extremely enlightening and explained that Greece's precarious financial position was rooted in the financial falsehoods that were given/accepted upon EU entry.

Politicians promise? Worthless

 

[Ashtree]

I've pointed out on here more than once, that Brexit and the probable consequent break up if the EU will have untold consequences. There's no doubt in my mind that Putin's agents are working behind the scenes to promote the chances of that happening. No doubt by extension that he is subtly and probably financially supporting Brexit. Nigel Farage is after all one if Putin's biggest admirers.
This article in Bloomberg sums up the situation nicely http://bloom.bg/1WEgfR7

 

[Muck Spreader]

I'll have look for it, thank you. I found the BBC programme that Simon Reeve did about Greece extremely enlightening and explained that Greece's precarious financial position was rooted in the financial falsehoods that were given/accepted upon EU entry.

Politicians promise? Worthless

One of the most interesting things to me in his prog was the half million Bangladeshi's they import to work in the fruit and veg industry. FFS

 

[JohnGalway]

I'll have look for it, thank you. I found the BBC programme that Simon Reeve did about Greece extremely enlightening and explained that Greece's precarious financial position was rooted in the financial falsehoods that were given/accepted upon EU entry.

Politicians promise? Worthless

I was only in Greece once, in Crete. We took a landrover safari with a very nice English guy named Gary who lives there. I had been seeing so, so many houses that to my eye looked unfinished. Rod iron sticking up out of low pillars on the second and third floors, so I asked him what the craic was with that? In Crete, at that time, you only paid tax on your house if it was finished. So, put in planning for a three story house, weatherproof it to 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 stories and pay no tax.

 

[Muck Spreader]

I was only in Greece once, in Crete. We took a landrover safari with a very nice English guy named Gary who lives there. I had been seeing so, so many houses that to my eye looked unfinished. Rod iron sticking up out of low pillars on the second and third floors, so I asked him what the craic was with that? In Crete, at that time, you only paid tax on your house if it was finished. So, put in planning for a three story house, weatherproof it to 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 stories and pay no tax.

That's also why a lot of the hotels appear to have permanent scaffolding on them.

 

[arbel]

I was only in Greece once, in Crete. We took a landrover safari with a very nice English guy named Gary who lives there. I had been seeing so, so many houses that to my eye looked unfinished. Rod iron sticking up out of low pillars on the second and third floors, so I asked him what the craic was with that? In Crete, at that time, you only paid tax on your house if it was finished. So, put in planning for a three story house, weatherproof it to 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 stories and pay no tax.

It's the same in Spain too.

 

[JP1]

This debate has been had, about 5x over now, the rules come from the eu, if there is no eu driving the rules, there is none, other than the ones we lobby for ourselves, some on here for some reason think that basic common sense rules, should not apply to them, and so call this red tape applied by our own government, some people can't behave and have to be regulated i.e spreading ridiculous amounts of muck on a small area and polluting the local water courses, that's a simple matter of life, as for the civil servants having nothing to do, george osborne has a good way of sorting that, he is running an austerity program designed to shrink the state to the smallest it's been in donkey's years, there is no room for lame ducks

Or you could stay in the eu, have very little say and have more rules that our government has to apply, austerity or not, or they will get fined massively, hmmm

You're crazy

Westminster is a legislation machine - that's all it can do.

If we leave ( and I fear we will) , you won't see any reduction in politicians, advisors , civil servants or legislation

I say again, we could be more efficient here and give a boost to the greater UK economy by moving the UK parliament out of London ( I like the idea of embedding it in Edinburgh) and further rationalising the number of MPs and the Lords

I would imagine per capita the EU legislation process is infinitely more efficient than any Member State's equivalent

 

[arbel]

You're crazy

Westminster is a legislation machine - that's all it can do.

If we leave ( and I fear we will) , you won't see any reduction in politicians, advisors , civil servants or legislation

I say again, we could be more efficient here and give a boost to the greater UK economy by moving the UK parliament out of London ( I like the idea of embedding it in Edinburgh) and further rationalising the number of MPs and the Lords

I would imagine per capita the EU legislation process is infinitely more efficient than any Member State's equivalent

So, where is the efficiency in having our own highly paid legislators, who just pass on their responsibilities to Brussels and another set of legislators who I did not vote for? Now that is crazy!!

 

[arbel]

I've pointed out on here more than once, that Brexit and the probable consequent break up if the EU will have untold consequences. There's no doubt in my mind that Putin's agents are working behind the scenes to promote the chances of that happening. No doubt by extension that he is subtly and probably financially supporting Brexit. Nigel Farage is after all one if Putin's biggest admirers.
This article in Bloomberg sums up the situation nicely http://bloom.bg/1WEgfR7

Good morning Prof. You failed to answer my questions. But then you Remainers are no better than the Brexiters in providing detailed information. So, I have marked your exam paper at 0/10

Interesting that you have latched onto my conspiracy theory. No doubt that Mr.Putin will be the catalyst behind the destruction of the EU. There will be nothing that any of us can do about that. The seeds are already being sown. The EU and Nato have left it too late to take a stand against the new wannabe Tzar. So, I will vote for Brexit, as I want my country back and not to be dragged down by subservience to the new political order that we will soon see in Europe. Better to be tough on the outside, than squeaking like a mouse inside.

Good article in Bloomberg.

 

[JP1]

So, where is the efficiency in having our own highly paid legislators, who just pass on their responsibilities to Brussels and another set of legislators who I did not vote for? Now that is crazy!!

I'm not saying have both merely an EU team on , say , vehicle emissions probably knows more than Nicholas Soames and his ilk and therefore let them get on with it etc