Ewe rolls analysis

[Jim75]

i know it's not a lot to go on but someone smarter than me can give me an insight into the breakdown of these rolls.

@Gilchro @scholland @Nithsdale Farmer

Due to start lambing in 6 days. Have already had a couple slips but had a set of triplets today that although are up and at it just lack that extra something. Ewes have been on hay for the last 6-7 weeks and carried on into housing. Also access to energy buckets and are motoring through them now. Twins and triplets are on 0.85kg rolls /hd/day access to buckets and hay.
Have been feeding singles rolls as the condition has fallen off them and really disappointed from how they fealt at 2nd heptavac 3 weeks ago aswell as buckets and hay.
Was advised the buckets and hay would be enough for the singles and a bit concerned how they are feeling now.
As some may have noticed I was lookin at a home mix and supplementing soya but was pursuaded not too maybe against my gut instinct but ultimately was my decision. Thoughts?

 

[scholland]

Is there much grass about? Hay decent? Size of ewes? I'd be wondering if there is something else going on if the singles are losing condition? Imo barley and dark grains are both good ingredients. Not a lot of soya in them if that's what you want but not many /if any nuts do!
I'd nearly expect a set of triplets 6 days early to not have much go so hopefully you don't have anything to worry about.
At 0.85kg per day they should be doing fine and getting plenty from the nuts, how is the twins bcs?

 

[exmoor dave]

i know it's not a lot to go on but someone smarter than me can give me an insight into the breakdown of these rolls.

@Gilchro @scholland @Nithsdale Farmer

Due to start lambing in 6 days. Have already had a couple slips but had a set of triplets today that although are up and at it just lack that extra something. Ewes have been on hay for the last 6-7 weeks and carried on into housing. Also access to energy buckets and are motoring through them now. Twins and triplets are on 0.85kg rolls /hd/day access to buckets and hay.
Have been feeding singles rolls as the condition has fallen off them and really disappointed from how they fealt at 2nd heptavac 3 weeks ago aswell as buckets and hay.
Was advised the buckets and hay would be enough for the singles and a bit concerned how they are feeling now.
As some may have noticed I was lookin at a home mix and supplementing soya but was pursuaded not too maybe against my gut instinct but ultimately was my decision. Thoughts?

Some manufacturers will give you a more detailed breakdown if you ask, i.e. levels of the different types of protein etc etc which might help you more.

 

[Purli R]

Aint no expert,IMO its no bad feed assuming ingredients are listed in descending order plenty of energy in 1st 3 ingredients,ultimately you need to know the ME levels at least 12.5-12.7me if you get to 13me,then its real good. Had our shlgs in for Heptavac today(singles)&theyre nowt flash,been on near ad lib big bale silo all winter & cake since mid jan,but our silo has nearly no feed value this year

 

[Jim75]

Is there much grass about? Hay decent? Size of ewes? I'd be wondering if there is something else going on if the singles are losing condition? Imo barley and dark grains are both good ingredients. Not a lot of soya in them if that's what you want but not many /if any nuts do!
I'd nearly expect a set of triplets 6 days early to not have much go so hopefully you don't have anything to worry about.
At 0.85kg per day they should be doing fine and getting plenty from the nuts, how is the twins bcs?

Ewes are housed. Twins came in 2 weeks ago and singles in the last week. Getting the onset of twin lamb in some singles too. First job tomorrow is to get an in depth analysis and will see what that shows. Hay analysed at average at best. Twin ewes were 3-3.5 bcs 3 weeks ago. Probably a 3 at best now. Singles were 3 bcs 3 weeks ago. A lot would be 2.5-2.7 now. Triplets have all sucked themselves but quite small.
Multiples were being fed rolls from 3 weeks ago and singles have been on buckets/hay till they came in

 

[gatepost]

You need to get the actual % of each ingredient, also remember to take into account the moisture %, all animal requirements worked out on a dry matter basis. one ration I looked at this yr was quoted at 12.5me but I couldn't get it any higher than 11.6, every one quotes crude protein but you need to work in digestible crude protein (dcp) and that will depend on the protein source that is used, it is actually a bit of a mine field.

 

[scholland]

Aint no expert,IMO its no bad feed assuming ingredients are listed in descending order plenty of energy in 1st 3 ingredients,ultimately you need to know the ME levels at least 12.5-12.7me if you get to 13me,then its real good. Had our shlgs in for Heptavac today(singles)&theyre nowt flash,been on near ad lib big bale silo all winter & cake since mid jan,but our silo has nearly no feed value this year

This is a very good point, get the me level, 12.5 minimum ideally.

 

[Jim75]

Ticket was on the bags tonight and going through them tonight a wee bit worried. As I said first job tomorrow...... if they give it to me

 

[Purli R]

Chuck em some fodderbeet or sugarbeet nuts aswell as.Rumevite blocks,they"ll eat them no probs assuming your on mule ewes?they take some grub this time of year

 

[Nithsdale]

Don't think i can be of much help... iv no experience indoor lambing. Your analysis looks decent, though.

If they are going backwards, and the hay is decent and they are eating it... give them more feed?

 

[dazza b]

If they are bcs as you say I wouldn't worry to much lambs will be growing well and taking off the ewes I aim for a bcs of 3 at lambing but would rather a slightly lean ewe to an overweight lazy ewe

 

[Jim75]

Started off on half a kilo and gradually increased it and started having prolapses so cut it back, took them in and split the feed to twice a day. Mainly cheviots with a few lleyn x and mules. Singles struggling with twin lamb would suggest diet no? Singles started on 0.25kg but have them on near 0.5kg, as time went on got more worried

 

[Nithsdale]

Started off on half a kilo and gradually increased it and started having prolapses so cut it back, took them in and split the feed to twice a day. Mainly cheviots with a few lleyn x and mules. Singles struggling with twin lamb would suggest diet no? Singles started on 0.25kg but have them on near 0.5kg, as time went on got more worried

Get molasses into them, and lots of it?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Fecking sheep... give them too much and they push their guts out and die...don't give them enough and they get twin lamb and die

 

[exmoor dave]

Started off on half a kilo and gradually increased it and started having prolapses so cut it back, took them in and split the feed to twice a day. Mainly cheviots with a few lleyn x and mules. Singles struggling with twin lamb would suggest diet no? Singles started on 0.25kg but have them on near 0.5kg, as time went on got more worried

Trouble is there's cake and there's cake,

We had loads of trouble with our Feb ewes last year, my better half did say ......repeatedly ......that I should get metabolic profiles done on the ewes but it just didn't occur to me that the cake might be below par.
We changed suppliers for a different reason for our April flock and got on well with the new cake.
So this year we also up graded to one of the new suppliers best cakes and have had a fraction of the problems of last Feb.


Costs a arm and a leg thou!

 

[neilo]

Started off on half a kilo and gradually increased it and started having prolapses so cut it back, took them in and split the feed to twice a day. Mainly cheviots with a few lleyn x and mules. Singles struggling with twin lamb would suggest diet no? Singles started on 0.25kg but have them on near 0.5kg, as time went on got more worried

Singles with TLD suggests a serious energy deficit to me, probably from your 'average at best' hay being little more than gut fill (like my, and many others', hay is this year). Liquid feed or fodder beet would do a trick on them, but if they're not used to either, they would take a week or two to adapt and that'll probably be too long.
The ingredient list on the concentrates doesn't look as disasterous as some, but I would like to see Soya higher up the list personally. An ME figure would certainly be interesting to see though.
Given you need to do something NOW, I would suggest increasing feed levels across the board and assume the hay is providing nothing more than fibre.

Out of interest, have you an analysis on the hay?

 

[Nithsdale]

Singles with TLD suggests a serious energy deficit to me, probably from your 'average at best' hay being little more than gut fill (like my, and many others', hay is this year). Liquid feed or fodder beet would do a trick on them, but if they're not used to either, they would take a week or two to adapt and that'll probably be too long.
The ingredient list on the concentrates doesn't look as disasterous as some, but I would like to see Soya higher up the list personally. An ME figure would certainly be interesting to see though.
Given you need to do something NOW, I would suggest increasing feed levels across the board and assume the hay is providing nothing more than fibre.

Out of interest, have you an analysis on the hay?

If the sheep are desperate for it, and i suspect they will be - they will be into molasses in no time! Stopping the odd handful from bullying/hogging it would be the bigger issue.

 

[Jim75]

Singles with TLD suggests a serious energy deficit to me, probably from your 'average at best' hay being little more than gut fill (like my, and many others', hay is this year). Liquid feed or fodder beet would do a trick on them, but if they're not used to either, they would take a week or two to adapt and that'll probably be too long.
The ingredient list on the concentrates doesn't look as disasterous as some, but I would like to see Soya higher up the list personally. An ME figure would certainly be interesting to see though.
Given you need to do something NOW, I would suggest increasing feed levels across the board and assume the hay is providing nothing more than fibre.

Out of interest, have you an analysis on the hay?

Have an analysis yes. As I say probably poor to average at best. Will see what tomorrow brings.

 

[scottish-lleyn]

Arre you feeding the ewes in walk tho feeders?

 

[Jim75]

Arre you feeding the ewes in walk tho feeders?

Some in walk through and some along feed barriers