Explaining Direct drilling to staff.

[Pilatus]

If you are farming many acres and gradually moving over to D/D ,how do you conivince staff, that D/D is the way forward ,as it may lead to a member of staff being made redundant and one of them will no longer be driving that large Challenger or Quadtrac etc,as it will be no longer needed. To make D/D drilling work on the large farm ,getting the staff to believe in it must be of paramount importance for it to succeed.
I get the impression that many of you are smaller farmers,without the above situation arising.

 

[Knockie]

Is won't be easy, I think the way to go is to explain the long term goals you have and without everyone's backing it just won't work. Could you go on the drill yourself?
SD.

 

[Feldspar]

This is a tricky one. I think it is vital for everyone to at least be open minded about it and ideal if they are supportive. We have started by direct drilling some crops to test the water. Since direct drilling our rape we have had much more consistent establishment and yields and that demonstration is useful. Did the same with a 750a drill this year and the spring crops and achieved just as good yields as the normal system (if not slightly better). To actually show the system working is quite valuable. Drive the drill yourself for the first year or so if that's doable. No point having someone driving it if they don't want it to work.

With the above said I think the best thing to do is take everyone and go and visit someone who is doing it successfully. For your main drill operator to talk to someone like @martian 's drill operator would probably go a long way to hearing from someone other than you that it can and does work.

I think the problem of the loss of street cred when everyone else around you is driving 600hp Quadtracs is quite a big one. Important thing for people to realise though that the current way of doing things cannot last and that if they want the farm to remain in business a more sustainable path is necessary. I think another important thing is to make sure that the equipment you do have is top notch; that is, if you have 6 tractors now and you go down to three, make sure those three are really nice to drive. Just little things like specifying electric mirrors, climate control, guidance or electric spools that make the job easier and more enjoyable might offset the loss of a tractor with a lot of hp.

 

[Clive]

big toys (609hp challanger, JD85 etc) all went here, staff were not bothered really, Get them onside and they will see the stupidity of 20t / 500hp plus kit and enjoy the fact they can have a family life outside of work, even in august / September, pay them the same but for less and everyone's a winner, they will be more motivated, less likely to leave and committed to make it work for you ?? We need much less and much cheaper kit so what we do need we can afford the very best and newest of, fendts, batemans, claas and RTK in every machine and option boxes ticked for comforts etc making the job easier and more comfortable, I think that's more relevant to a driver than just big stuff ??

My guys don't care about "street cred" ! they laugh neighbouring recreational cultivation, nothing funnier to them, than watching others wasting time, fuel and metal ! (bit bad I know !)

successfully zero-till needs a very skilled operator who is more than just a good driver, you need to give them some agronomic education as well so they are in a position to make decisions as well as just drive

I have staff now that are every bit as boring as myself re zero-till so job done here I think !!

 

[Feldspar]

big toys (609hp challanger, JD85 etc) all went here, staff were not bothered really, Get them onside and they will see the stupidity of 20t / 500hp plus kit and enjoy the fact they can have a family life outside of work, pay them the same but for less and everyone's a winner, they will be more motivated, less likely to leave and committed to make it work for you ?? We need much less and much cheaper kit so what we do need we can afford the very best and newest of, fendts, batemans, claas and RTK in every machine and option boxes ticked for comforts etc making the job easier and more comfortable, I think that's more relevant to a driver than just big stuff ??

My guys don't care about "street cred" ! they laugh neighbouring recreational cultivation, nothing funnier to them, than watching others wasting time, fuel and metal ! (bit bad I know !)

successfully zero-till needs a very skilled operator who is more than just a good driver, you need to give them some agronomic education as well so they are in a position to make decisions as well as just drive

I have staff now that are every bit as boring as myself re zero-till so job done here I think !!

I think if you have had neighbours who have tried and then failed to making direct drilling work then that has a big negative effect and does not generate a perception that they are wasting their time with cultivation equipment.

 

[Clive]

I think if you have had neighbours who have tried and then failed to making direct drilling work then that has a big negative effect and does not generate a perception that they are wasting their time with cultivation equipment.

most failures I have seen are self inflicted (including my own). People find it much easier to blame systems or machines than their own crap management

 

[Feldspar]

most failures I have seen are self inflicted (including my own). People find it much easier to blame systems or machines than their own crap management

Fact remains though that experiences of near neighbours can be highly influential irrespective the the cause / reason for the problems.

 

[JD-Kid]

ummmm tough one .. realy need to know who's on board if yer change
if they are only there to drive big toys thats not good in the long run under any system
i also don't belive in buying flash gear as a make up gift end of the day do they want a job or not .. if changeing to DD will improve your bottom line then there job is safer long term sooner have a safe job than say i used to drive that at the clearing sale
end of the day the staff that add the most to your income and will learn new skills ....

i don't know if going total DD is a wise step tho and that sounds strange comeing from someone who DDed as a contractor i said to a guy from the UK that was here a few weeks ago a stroke of a pen in the EU and DD will be gone ban a few sprays and slug baits lift the price on some chem's and the soil will be turning again .. you guys will know just how much of an impact some dumb rule changes will have as you have seen chems baned before

 

[Clive]

ummmm tough one .. realy need to know who's on board if yer change
if they are only there to drive big toys thats not good in the long run under any system
i also don't belive in buying flash gear as a make up gift end of the day do they want a job or not .. if changeing to DD will improve your bottom line then there job is safer long term sooner have a safe job than say i used to drive that at the clearing sale
end of the day the staff that add the most to your income and will learn new skills ....

i don't know if going total DD is a wise step tho and that sounds strange comeing from someone who DDed as a contractor i said to a guy from the UK that was here a few weeks ago a stroke of a pen in the EU and DD will be gone ban a few sprays and slug baits lift the price on some chem's and the soil will be turning again .. you guys will know just how much of an impact some dumb rule changes will have as you have seen chems baned before

i think could live without slug pellets, certainly meta (already have for 3 years) only think that could get banned that would be the end of zero-till for me would be glyphostae and even with a plough I think farming without that would be difficult for anyone

 

[JD-Kid]

i think could live without slug pellets, certainly meta (already have for 3 years) only think that could get banned that would be the end of zero-till for me would be glyphostae and even with a plough I think farming without that would be difficult for anyone

yea i think there would be ways around it but it would swing a few back to the plow

 

[York]

quite a number it's more important to "sell" the concept to the older generation or vise versa. Have seen it both.
Topic of "failed neighbours":
isn't it so that at every machinery deal farmers come to the dealer: "I need a demo on my field. My soil is absolutely different to the soil where you demoed it on the other side of the fence."
York-Th.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Whenever I need to "sell" an idea of mine to my staff that, among other benefits will save time I tell them my aim is to make myself redundant.
I haven't succeeded in that yet.

 

[doorknob]

"Here", it takes the same personnel count for no-till/dd as conventional when using the same implement width equipment. There is a lot more agronomy work to be done as well as seeder maintenance than with conventional.The sprayer almost never stops on our no-till fields, but then, we can drive the sprayer on them with little rutting vs. the deep tilled fields.

As far as neighbors failing conservation, I would love to debate it further in another thread. But much damage has been done to the image of dd/no-till with all the degrading comments of crap management and pompous, arrogant proclamations that no-till takes smarter management or better skills. This detours many from taking it as any serious method of crop farming. Naturally they will tend to cling to the high profile failures and use them to confirm their thoughts about no-till.

 

[Old Spot]

MX7 I take your point about size and employees but it is even harder with fathers!
Peer pressure from friends and neighbours can also be hard.
Get them involved, especially in talking about our number one resource soil.
My son points to all the range rovers and discoverys at his grand father's parties and says that is where all the OM has gone they are miners not farmers.
PS my father now begrudging accepts it, if a success I was lucky, if poor DD fault,
I am 55 he is 84!

 

[Bill Turtle]

Ah well, at least he is still about to provide a commentary, I miss mine.

 

[Old Spot]

Ah well, at least he is still about to provide a commentary, I miss mine.

Sorry, thoughtless, wouldn't swap it for anything

 

[Clive]

MX7 I take your point about size and employees but it is even harder with fathers!
Peer pressure from friends and neighbours can also be hard.
Get them involved, especially in talking about our number one resource soil.
My son points to all the range rovers and discoverys at his grand father's parties and says that is where all the OM has gone they are miners not farmers.
PS my father now begrudging accepts it, if a success I was lucky, if poor DD fault,
I am 55 he is 84!

I point to my range rover and see it as fuel and metal saved each year !

 

[martian]

We are very lucky to have two blokes who seem to completely 'get' what we are trying to do. We kept the Challenger for the first year and then it became obvious that it was surplus to requirements and replaced it with a shiny New Holland (which is also probably too big). We got the men involved when Steve Townsend was first advising us on min-till and they were instantly happy to ditch the plough (although one continued to enter ploughing matches for old time's sake). Converting to no-till was quite painless and we pay a salary now rather than o/time, based on hours worked in the olden days plus a bit, so they are more than happy to have time off.
I point to my Skoda and...in fact I don't point to my Skoda, it would be rude.

 

[willy]

Put them on a salary, tell them they will do less hours but be flexible when conditions are right. Also take them along to any seminars about the system.

One thing I have done is swap the cultivator for a baler and he spends his time baling and collecting and pays for himself this way. It also means we can clear fields when conditions are right and are boss of our own destiny a bit more. I know you may say I should chop, but I have raised soil organic matter to 7and9 %. And straw caused more problems with my seedhawk.

 

[Robert]

I know you may say I should chop, but I have raised soil organic matter to 7and9 %. And straw caused more problems with my seedhawk.

Sounds impressive, can you elaborate please - soil type / starting om, continuous baling, seed hawk and (?) claydon? Thanks